Sonic 2 Move Editor

I am developing a Sonic 2 Move Editor (Part of currently nonexistent Ultimate Sonic Editor: Millennium Edition [uSE ME]) in Python. (It'll be a command-line utility for a lot of its development...)


My question on "leaping" was to get a test move.


If I succeed, this will operate on s2.asm directly, and would be used along with editors such as SonED 2.


Its features will (hopefully) include:


The buttons pressed to make the move happen


The characters which can perform the move


The number of chaos emeralds you need to use the move


The number of rings you need to use the move


The animation(s) you need to have to use the move


The state (stand/run (on ground no spin), spin (on ground with spin), fall (in air no spin), or jump (in air with spin)) you need to be in to use the move


Whether you need to be super to use the move


What the move does to your velocity


What the move does to your animation and/or state


What the move does to your rings (eg the shadow move in Sonic Megamix where you needed 5 rings and then dashed forward, losing 5 rings in the process...)


I may be able to do more, but that's all I'm planning on right now.


Feedback would be welcome!

 

On one hand, I like the idea because it will make it possible to do things I currently am unable to do. On the other hand, I can see folks getting upset over it, claiming things like "EVERY hack will have these moves and this will be the death of originality."


Me, however, my downside view is that it will make actually learning the code harder as it will be possible to implement more things without learning anything.


It's going to be a love-hate relationship on the idea you have. As I said, I both like and dislike it at the same time, for good reasons. I'm sure others will have similar things to say.

 

Sounds like a great idea, and in my opinion this is no worse than modding tools that allow you to do similar things to PC games. The "every hack will have this" argument is getting tired, as when people put hacks up on hacktube that are just guide followed, they're either beginner'd or deleted. Things like this have been around for a while and it hasn't brought down the hacking scene, and I also believe that development of tools like this is just as important as new hack releases.

 

I would be worried that creation of this utility would allow complete and utter moronic cretins put together in 5 minutes what takes many months and constitutes the very beginning of a steep learning curve that leads onto better and more impressive things. I say I would be worried, because I have absolutely no faith that this will ever come to fruitition. Even if it did, it would be horribly buggy and limited in scope, very easy to break. Even if it were none of those things, no-one would use it because they fall into one of two categories - they know how to code moves and are willing to try and operate an editor from the command line - OR - they dont know how to code moves and are utterly bewildered without a GUI. Finally, assuming by some miracle, despite all the odds, this tool is produced, not completely useless, and actually enjoys some widespread use, there is the limited imagination of the caliber of sonic hackers who will use the thing. In summary, we can look forward to seeing hacks with twelve different homing attacks in Blue Hill Zone around about the 12th of May, 200-and-fucking-NEVER.


You cannot learn how to modify these games in a weekend. You shouldn't want to. You can't easily come to an understanding with no effort or work. You shouldn't want to. If it is worth having, you need to work for it. It can be a deeply rewarding experience, but it will take many years of diligent study, trial error, maddening, infuriating frustration, hard work and effort to produce anything worthwhile (and this is what makes success all the more rewarding). If 5 minutes in an editor were all it took to create fantastic modifications, this would fast become the most boring hobby ever.


Good luck with your miracle tool. Maybe after you finished that you can work on a tool that earns you a PhD in medical science in around 6 minutes. It would truly revolutionise the medical industry.


[sATIRE]


[Edit: Why did you do that?]

 

I AM GOING TO USE THIS TOOL.

 

I noticed that the scope would be limited as soon as I got the idea (no glide/climb support )


However, it can't get started until someone answers my question!!!


(You see, I am one of those idiots who doesn't know any ASM.)

 

>_>

 

I think glide and climb support are the first in a very very long list of moves that you haven't thought of yet, which this theoretical tool could not do.


Additionally, you say you cannot start work on this tool until someone answers this question. But whoever answers this question must have got that knowledge from somewhere. This editor is your idea, so you should do the legwork for it. Work out the answer to the question yourself! Then you will be better equipped to answer future questions.


Perhaps if you did "know any ASM" you would feel differently about the idea you've had.

 

I know how you feel I don't know any ASM either but this looks very useful I can't wait to see it in action.

 

Let me tell you this as I tried making a tool without extensive knowledge. You are in over way over your head at the moment. You'll to have a firm grasp on ASM, learn the language to program it in, make a decent GUI, document it, and debug it. Until you even learn ASM, keep on dreaming.

 

Actually, I think the GUI would be the biggest problem. You can't compile a Tkinter GUI Python Script to an .EXE...


However, you are right, I really should do the ASM myself...and I can't do that right now.


I can make all of it but the animation and velocity parts though! (In one edit, I made it so jumping cost you a ring...)

 

I was playing around with making moves in my hack directly from ASM. I was able to create a new move by looking at the spin-dash code, and seeing how it works. I now understand how the game looks for buttons that are pressed (or not pressed for that matter) how it loads up animations, and decide whether or not Sonic is getting hurt, or if he's doing the hurting. I would never have been able to understand it, had I used a program such as what's being made. Your question can be answered by doing what I did. Look at other codes, and see how they work. Want to know how velocity works? Check out the speed shoes or a spin-dash routine. Make back-ups, and edit, and take notes. You can learn a lot by that. Even failures can lead to something interesting.... a spindash that costs a ring? Not your original plan, but it could still be cool. And you wouldn't have gotten it if you had a tool that made a move "made to order." If you make this tool, I'll applaud your efforts to learn and program it, but I won't use it. Like ionjnekns said, it felt rewarding for me to figure it out, and come to an understanding how hacking works.

 

Extremely well articulated. I hope you go far.

 

Wait, if you knew everything up there, you can just program it yourself.