Sonic Hacking Contest 2016

Discussion in 'Discussion and Q&A Archive' started by Spanner, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. Ashuro

    Ashuro Anti-Cosmic Metal Of Death Member

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    Hum, ok, thanks.
     
  2. NiphFM

    NiphFM Host of the Mega Drive Music Contest Member

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    I thought they went public in Contest Week, as I'm pretty sure that's what happened last year. You can release it early if you really want to, though you still have a month to further improve your entry, so I'd suggest utilising the extra time while you have it before releasing it.
     
  3. Burst

    Burst You call this a connection? Oh, give me a break. Member

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    Aww yeah! Hope we are getting at least one trophy for S1WW :D
     
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  4. TheStoneBanana

    TheStoneBanana banana Member

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    After submissions close, I think they release a list of all of the submissions. That's what I meant, so I apologize for not being clearer.
     
  5. Selbi

    Selbi The Euphonic Mess Member

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    No unique color for the website this year? Boo. :V
     
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  6. MainMemory

    MainMemory Well-Known Member Member

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    Maybe I should post this here since nobody cares about IRC anymore:
    The fact that one of the "quick stats" icons is called "Sprite Programming Modifications" is really dumb. Sprites are mappings and tiles, objects have programming, and in 3D games, most objects use models instead of sprites.
    What exactly constitutes a "Visual Modification"? If I use SADX's built-in debug text functions to show text on the screen, is that a visual modification? Or would that only apply for texture/model edits?
    Does editing SADX to play Big's missing victory clip when he completes a level count as an audio modification? I'm not editing any of the game's audio data, only the programming related to when certain sounds play.
    What, exactly, is the difference between a "Basic Engine Modification" and an "Advanced Engine Modification"?

    I'm still kind of sad that the website doesn't provide standard instructions for what's needed for SADX, SA2, and Generations mods, thus leaving it up to the individual entry pages.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
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  7. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic Also known as RHS Member

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    People use to care about it? =P


    This, I would like to know the answer to as well.
     
  8. Sewer56

    Sewer56 Newcomer Member

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    While I am not participating personally, I'd also like to jump in on this as a question as I personally believe that it is by technicality very vague and while it is fitting for 2D titles, it is not very fitting in application to 3D titles as such.

    For example, in the 3D context I could see "Basic" and "Advanced" engine modifications as for instance a modification of core gameplay mechanics - such as an implementation of a custom move for a character or an entire custom moveset. I see this done by methods such as raw modification of binaries (e.g. .dol for GC or .exe for PC), editing compiled assembly, ASM injection or modification of physics by direct modifications to the binaries or files responsible. I could also see this extended to a point where engine modifications could apply to renderer tweaks or modifications (which also overlaps with Visual modifications?), collision detection, cutscene scripting, modifying the handling of animations (overlap with 'Sprite Programming Modifications'? - even if it is models in a 3D scene) or networking even in some cases (along a few other uncommon things).

    But then looking at all of the things I could think of, I would have to agree with MainMemory, in my opinion it is very difficult to give a disambiguation between "Basic" and "Advanced" for 2 main reasons:
    • Some modifications may be much easier to achieve in one game compared to another game, for instance, in Generations you can alter physics (if I'm not mistaken, have not touched it in years) by modifying human readable text comfortably, while in SA2 as an example you'd have to manually dig memory addresses of the game, identify all of the variables and then find the equivalent address in the executable to make a simple physics edit. Even if physics modifications can be considered a simple thing by a bunch of people (game dependent), now with one task being much more effort taking and complex than the other, can the harder task be considered as "Advanced"? Because comparatively to the simple modification of human readable text it is 'Advanced', would it therefore be fair to give an equal accreditation to both of the modifications in question? That is a bit of an issue.
      • Additionally, here's another example. Let's say that you would want to edit, for example how in-level effects, splines, custom level objects, fog, normals data or even level 'gradients' are handled in Shadow The Hedgehog and Sonic Heroes. While in Shadow The Hedgehog (which by design is a very moddable game) I have all aspects which build up a stage separated into their own files making them potentially very easy to reverse engineer (perfect level porting/swapping mods are easy), in Sonic Heroes I'd have to blindly and cluelessly (for some things) dig the stage's relocatable module file (.rel), between 1-2MB in size. Same mission can be accomplished, but finding what you are looking for in the latter would be quite a difficult task by design. Modifying the Heroes' .rel files is not an easy thing by any means, the offsets for certain things change with some of the files - would that not therefore be considered 'advanced' in nature?
    • If a case existed whereby a modder brings something that has never been seen before (in any 3D game) as an own result of an "advanced" reverse engineering effort (even if the modification was of lower-mid level complexity), would original research be considered as an "advanced" modification? Finding what you are looking for is a challenge in its own rights and would be an "advanced" effort if there has been nothing to work with prior, but then once the format is reverse engineered and known it may only be a "Basic" modification to perform. Example: User submits first ever custom very small scale level modification for X game as a proof of concept hack.
    For Visual Modification and the example MainMemory gave, while I'd think it would only apply to the latter, I could see an overlap there - couldn't drawing custom text on screen via the use, modification or hooking of a found method be considered an "Engine Modification"? And if yes, then at what level?

    Equally for audio modification - let's say I would write a piece of ASM injected AR (or equivalent) code, then add (for example) the NTSC-J Sonic Heroes' speech lines (.AFS archive) and swap the two archives if the language is changed in game by comparing the current selected language in assembly to give the game's ability of multiple speech languages as present in the (bad) PS2 version. That is technically not an introduction of new audio files as they are present in another localized release of the title however is still a modification in how audio is handled by the game, a very similar case as stated by MainMemory.

    Also 'Level Layout Modifications' can be ambiguous in one way, would it apply if object layout is modified, geometry is modified or both? For example (hypothetical/imaginary), if a game was submitted with an unknown geometry format but had heavy level object layout and hugely revamped texturework making the stage hard to distinguish from the original, would that still count as a 'Level Layout Modification', because for all I'd be concerned - the geometry would still technically be identical.

    While the IRC may essentially be dead @MainMemory , the SSRG Discord group is pretty active, so hop aboard if you fancy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
  9. ArcaniaCQ

    ArcaniaCQ Well-Known Member Member

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    Not true at all. However discord is great. So I would not mind a SHC Discord.
     
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  10. LazloPsylus

    LazloPsylus The Railgun Member

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    With visual modifications, the classification is broad enough that really any visual changes would count. It's up to the applicant's best judgement if their changes are notable enough to indicate. Same with audio modifications. If it's different from normal operation and you think it's significant enough to note, you can indicate it. With engine modifications, the difference between "basic" and "advanced" is again left up to applicant judgement. I generally see the difference as little mechanics tweaks versus radically advanced changes, but that's personal. Sprite programming modifications, it's poorly-named and could probably be altered to apply to both 2D and 3D games. The idea behind it is more effectively labeled as object modification.

    Ultimately, those quick stats are just a convenient way to let people know what's been messed with in a notable way. What constitutes falling under those categories is really up for personal discretion.
     
  11. MainMemory

    MainMemory Well-Known Member Member

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    Well I think that kind of makes them completely useless.

    Also, the site still inserts backslashes before underscores in descriptions, which makes posting URLs rather difficult.
     
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  12. LazloPsylus

    LazloPsylus The Railgun Member

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    Honestly, they pretty much are. I mainly use them as an indicator for what to look for when I'm judging, but it's ultimately up to the applicant what is notable enough to even be marked. No punishment for abusing or not using the system, just a bit of a courtesy for the judging staff, if nothing else.
     
  13. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic Also known as RHS Member

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    One BIG issue and misunderstanding we had last year and the year before, and I couldn't see a solution this time. What TIME on Sunday? At 00:00 BST (so, as soon as the clock ticks from the 8th to the 9th), or at 23:59 BST (we have all day on the 9th to submit)? Sorry if I missed it (I couldn't be arsed to read 14 pages). But I thought I'd ask on everyone's behalf before we have late submissions like last year.
     
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  14. warr1or2

    warr1or2 I AM CLG Member

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    Question
    All submissions are to be bug free right? One of mine is complete level wise but there are 2 bugs.
    1. Signpost art loading
    2. Recently found, doing a spindash as the level loads & release immediately will send Sonic to the end of the level.
    My Richter hack ain't Even complete so that one will be postponed. However Sonic's Emerald Hunt, as stated, has 2 bugs.
     
  15. Misinko

    Misinko Oh SHIT it's the Biolizard! Member

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    Dude, if you can find a single hack from the previous contests that didn't have a single bug, I will give you $10,000 in cash. No game/hack is without bugs. Doesn't matter if it's obvious or concealed.
     
  16. Animemaster

    Animemaster Lets get to work! Member

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    Hahaha....if that was the case neither of my hacks would of been submitted =P.
     
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  17. pixelcat

    pixelcat The Holy Cat Jr. Member

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    Just saying, links to SSRG user profiles on the SHC site go nowhere.
     
  18. Devon

    Devon Down you're going... down you're going... Member

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    That's because they still attempt to go to the IPB links for profiles instead of the XenForo links.
     
  19. LazloPsylus

    LazloPsylus The Railgun Member

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    It'll be fixed. Eventually. When people aren't busy with, you know, other things.
     
  20. ArcaniaCQ

    ArcaniaCQ Well-Known Member Member

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    It seems that I cannot delete screenshots that are already uploaded on the entry page for my hack. (The hack I worked on got some big changes as of late.