Saxman's Sonic Boom Engine

Discussion in 'Gallery of Dumbasses' started by saxman, Mar 12, 2015.

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  1. StephenUK

    StephenUK Working on a Quackshot disassembly Administrator

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    I was going to stay out of this one, as I thought enough had been said in the areas that also reflected my views, but here it goes anyway.


    First of all, let's start with the name. Personally, I think you should change it for a number of reasons, such as the fact people might make the incorrect assumption that it has ties to the godawful official games, or the hack by snkenjoi and iojnekns. I can see where they were coming from by asking you to change the name, as long term it could cause a lot of problems. I remember back when that OCRemix album for S3K used the same title as my hack. At first I thought "No big deal, shit happens" but that's before I was being bombarded with messages on YouTube by people who thought I had ties to the project, thought it was my hacks soundtrack and so on. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the contributors to that album also received messages about a hack they may never have heard of. Needless to say, it was very frustrating. Sonic Boom is such a generic name now that I don't think it reflects your goals either.


    Next, the content. The idea of a new level format allowing for much bigger levels is appealing, as long as the format isn't a complete nightmare to work with. I haven't looked at the project yet, but conceptually I like the sound of it. Fixing bugs is always a good thing, regardless of whether people could be seen as lazy. Although learning to fix them is a nice learning exercise, for someone who is clued up with ASM, fixing them all can be a bit tedious.


    As for adding features, this is where I start to struggle a bit. Adding Knuckles isn't too bad for me, as it allows someone to add an official character which can change the dynamics of levels. Adding in extra moves at the flip of a switch though for me is a no go. I can't tell you how sick I am of seeing the same jump dash, homing attack, after images etc. Those kind of things should stay well out of it. I suppose what I'm saying is having official stuff switchable is ok for me, adding anything unofficial will use mean creating a hell of a lot of repetitive hacks. I'll probably add more to this post later, but I'm posting off my phone at the moment.
     
  2. Selbi

    Selbi Kickstart My Ass Retired Staff

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    Funny that the three things you mentioned were all my fault. :p


    What I find especially interesting is my Jumpdash thread, because despite being six years old, it had a discussion that pretty much didn't differ one bit from the one that's been here so far (name controversies aside).


    The "open to everyone" features have always been a thorn in some people's eyes, whereas others simply don't care. While I don't publicly release anything anymore, I totally would if it wasn't for the fear of getting another backlash from the people who've criticized me before due to this (once again pointing at the linked thread). It has nothing to do with wanting to make sure some content is in every other hack, all I'd like to see is people being creative with what they're given. And that's where I side with saxman:

    People should be more focused on making an enjoyable hack than wasting hours upon hours into pointless research.

    I do know the risks of some people just putting in everything they see into their oh-so-original hack and then only get hate in response for not actually having any. However, it's always been like that and just because there would be more public resources I don't think a lot would change for us. If we see another "Sonic Ultra Hyper Mega" hack, chances are that would've been equally terrible without any guides.

    A somewhat similar project for Sonic 1 was done by Mercury a few years back, titled ReadySonic. It also featured a pre-made Super Peel-Out, Wall Jump, SCD sprites, centi-seconds HUD, HUD in special stage, magnetic rings, etc, yet that thing didn't receive a single post of wrath. Am I missing something here?

    I get the name controversy and everything, but what exactly did saxman and I do wrong that Mercury didn't?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2015
  3. EMK-20218

    EMK-20218 The Fuss Maker Member

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    That's the exact point I meant. You guys are talking about character habilities/add-ons, not about character additions. These would be not welcome actually since you already did guides which steps how to add them. ReadySonic as it own name says, focuses a complete different point. It's not much like a "New ReadySonic", but the Sax's Boom Engine seems to provide a bunch of engine improvements and better stability. It doesn't seems to be something which provides a lot of additional stuff. I may be wrong, but I saw in the other Saxman's comments along the topic that the purpose of the source is to provide improvements, not to be a ready game full of non-classic additions such as it is the purpose of the ReadySonic source code. You guys did nothing wrong. I really appreciate your efforts, but I just think that things like adding a extra characters would be not good because it may make people to use it in a simple way of get avoided of porting the hardcoded Knuckles by themselves. Not that keeping him would be bad. This is a interesting addition anyway.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2015
  4. Shadow Fire

    Shadow Fire Well-Known Member Administrator

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    My issue with the name is that I don't think of the awesome hack of the same name, but rather, I associate Sonic Boom with the cartoon and official games of the same name. Ugh.
     
  5. Flamewing

    Flamewing Elite Hacker Member

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    If that were true, Saxman would simply have changed the name by now. Since he hasn't, and refuses to even entertain the notion (at least publicly), it means he would probably disagree with you.

    At the time the hack was released, neither the Sonic Boom convention nor the cartoon nor the games were a thing; there was only the song. So at the time the hack came out, it was novel, even if it isn't today. It is kind of someone releasing a paletted graphics editor for Sonic games and calling it the "Sonic Color Contrast Graphics Editor"; it would have been novel a few years ago, but a bit of a dick move nowadays as it leads to needless confusion.
     
  6. iojnekns

    iojnekns OBAMA '012!!!!1!!!!!&#33 Member

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    On further consideration, this project kinda resembles Saxman's hacking folder.  It's schizophrenic in a way.  You have a few elements here:

    1. The "ReadySonic"-like functionality for giving shortcutting tedious tasks.

    2. Madcap, work-in-progress PoC such as the level format and the 32x functionality.

    3. There is also the disassembly base, which is a controversial choice.

    I think 1 is idealogically problematic for some people, but there is at least some argument for it to exist.

    The elements that comprise 2 are potentially interesting, but kind of clash with the first purpose. 

    The 3rd element is what I think ultimately determines the success of a ReadySonic like project described in 1.  You tend to see the same couple of people responding to technical questions on IRC and the basic questions and answers thread and if you want to see a project like this to succeed, these people need to be versed in it.  Using a fancy level format is well and good, but if Saxman is the only one who can answer questions about edge cases or nuances, and he isn't actively on hand to troubleshoot these, it's unlikely to succeed.  Similarly, using an older, out of favour disassembly makes help less accessible.

    Finally, you basically can't import easily art with SonLVL at this point, which is a fairly substantial problem given that this is the level editor of choice for a project designed to take the compleixty of hacking out of the equation for more artistic types.

    Flamewing: Actually, even in 2009 that name deserved a disambiguation.
     
  7. Flamewing

    Flamewing Elite Hacker Member

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    I stand corrected then; although to be fair, I imagine as it was nowhere as bad as it is today...
     
  8. Dark Lips

    Dark Lips Well-Known Member Member

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    iojnkins - seriously? you need to get a life now instead of ripping saxmans work to shit... are you aroused by slating him? does it make your little willy feel big and hard belittling someones hard work?
     
  9. StephenUK

    StephenUK Working on a Quackshot disassembly Administrator

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    Whoa time out there. His points were actually well thought out and constructive. There was nothing abusive in his response whatsoever, he was pointing out areas that need work or clarifying in order for this project to take off. I don't see anything here to deserve that kind of response.
     
  10. N30member

    N30member non-pro user btw Member

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    Ummm,

    [​IMG]       and      [​IMG]
          (saxman, saxophone)            (iojnekns, the man who's trying to fuck saxophone (or saxman)
    No, it's just an accident. =)
     
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