Sonic Hacking Contest 2016

Discussion in 'Discussion & Q&A' started by Spanner, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. Dragon Wolf Leo

    Dragon Wolf Leo Wha- I'm not doing ANYTHING! Member

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    I'm not suggesting any changes to the contest because the current system may be intended by the admins, but I speak personal opinion.

    I feel the best role of the specialized trophies should be to give recognition to those that aren't overall winners but significantly stand out in a certain aspect.
    I know a "deserving" hack from a "deserving" author should be recognized, but if it sweeps the contest and takes both the first place trophy and the specialized trophies, then runner-ups won't be recognized, and the specialized trophies mean less. Because it won first place, then they don't really matter; you won, every one else lost. The system feels discouraging to those who put their hardest effort into a hack, just for someone more talented and popular people to take most of the trophies. But maybe that's the intended design, to encourage attention to be put in just the few best by the best, and overshadow the less "deserving".

    I feel like I can put my hardest effort into my hack, but no matter my skill level, someone more well-known will win trophies I am going for. It makes me wonder how welcomed into the contest less-known participants would be, and if I do still decide to enter, whether I should enter for either the small chance I will win something, or to enter just to be there.
     
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  2. TheStoneBanana

    TheStoneBanana The Bananaman Member

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    The definition of the noun 'contest', according to a quick Google search, is:
    "an event in which people compete for supremacy in a sport, activity, or particular quality."
    ...so, when you say
    you're missing the point of a contest.

    Just because you put your heart and soul into a hack doesn't mean it is trophy worthy by any means. It's all about skill and what is truly, for a lack of a better word, greater.
     
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  3. Natsumi

    Natsumi Markey's Member

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    Fuck coddling to the needs of the bratty teens who dont enjoy the sport as it is and are in for the fame.
     
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  4. Animemaster

    Animemaster Lets get to work! Member

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    I think if we all gave everyone like a round of a plause for there work and encourage people(In the nices way) to try again next time. You could say something like "Unlucky contestants but good try and keep working hard and come back next time". Simple, but it shows you appreciate them taking the time to make a hack and submit it.

    Anywho...I wassss gonna do a live stream tutorial make a hack thingy, but honestly I doubt I would have the time.
     
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  5. Ayla

    Ayla Sonic Hacking Contest Founder & Co-Organiser Member

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    Hello everyone! Just saying 'hi' as I haven't been involved with the contest I created so many years ago in about two or three years. It makes me happy to see that everything has been maintained as I left it and that the spirit of the contest is intact. Many years back some people questioned whether choosing Spanner as contest head's successor was the right choice. I just wanted to take a moment to say, "I told you so". It pleases me to see how well it has been maintained and organised. It pleases me even more to see how much we've grown.

    I'm excited to see all the fantastic hacks people throw our way this time around. I've seen a few comments about there being fear of one hack dominating the contest. Back in the day, one hack has dominated contests before. Sonic Boom controversially did this without there even being a public hack for people to play. Sonic Megamix also did this for a couple years in a row. Please don't worry about it. Focus on one thing you want to shoot for and do it as well as you can. We'll be mentioning runner-ups to these trophies, so you may find that you were pretty close and have something to shoot for the next time!

    Regardless of who wins what, this year is going to be a very exciting year for the contest!
     
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  6. LazloPsylus

    LazloPsylus A Certain Scientific Railgun The Railgun

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    Kind of hard to misinterpret this line when it says the suggestion outright.
    Eggy's reacting to that idea, specifically. We're all for revamping runner ups, but none of us are going to ever agree to punish a hack because it was "too good". I get ProjectFM's mindset, but I do not agree with his suggested "fix". Consider for one moment being on the other end of this table. You made an incredible hack that has stepped above and beyond the competition, but you're restricted from competing past a certain degree because your work is "too good". Sorry, that would outright make me quit bothering with doing anything at all if good quality is a punishment. Most of the staff would quit before we'd consider punishing quality for being too good. Think about the message that sends. "Oh, I can get punished for putting too much quality in my work?" "Ouch, I'm being penalized for making something great." "If I'm punished for being too good, then why should I try to do something amazing?" Is that what you people want? Are all of your egos so fucking shallow that you need them stoked by punishing people who do amazing work? Do you want people to just slide into accepting mediocrity as standard? What the fuck is wrong with you people? This community was built on taking games we loved and pushing them beyond their original design. Now you want to restrict that? You've got quite a pair of balls to pull that shit.

    As for Eggy, his tone's harsh, but his point is loud and clear in this case. For everyone's benefit, we're not punishing going above and beyond. You don't want someone to sweep the board? Make better hacks.
     
  7. Varion Icaria

    Varion Icaria Well-Known Member Member

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    If I even decide to enter it this year. It depends on the work schedule. Levels are being worked on at the moment while some glitches are being fixed and the game becoming timing safe. But whether or not I enter it is a different story.
     
  8. ProjectFM

    ProjectFM Optimistic and self-dependent Member

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    That makes a lot of sense. Personally, I enjoy hacking and do it because it's cool to work on a project and see what it becomes. As for the contests, the main reason I enter them is to see people I'm a fan of like SomeCallMeJohnny and MegaGWolf comment on my work and to have a wider range of people than normal seeing what I've done. A big part in making something is to see other people enjoy it. While I'd be proud to get an award, I'm accepting of the fact that it's not too likely and inspires me to try and do better. I made my suggestion because I didn't know if it would be a good idea or not and I'd like to at least give you all something to think about.
     
  9. SaunicBoom

    SaunicBoom Wild Card Member

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    There's only one thing I'd like to add to this whole discussion (keeping in mind I'm not officially tied to the contest in any way, but merely an observer from both ends with friends on the inside and on the outside). I get that people are concerned about how close they may have come to winning a trophy and such, but I'd like to remind everyone that the judges aren't off limits to being asked questions about your guys' submissions. Remember that the contest results aren't unanimous and that each judge will naturally have their own opinions. If I was absolutely curious about one of my submissions, I'd go straight to the ones who played it and feel them out on what they think could be worked on. It's hard to get answers during live streams and such due to time constraints, but it's not like judges are locked down 'til next year's contest, just ask them. They're not as mean as some would like to believe, just be respectful and be ready to hear what they've got to say, even if you don't like it. And, in the end, it's just their opinion. Whether or not you want to take any criticisms of your work into consideration is entirely on you as the developer.

    I'll end this post addressing those who are sour over the results of last year's contest...The hacking contest began as a means for people to show off their own works compared to others. This can lead to many things such as inspiring another to try something new and fresh, maybe even pushes runner-ups to try harder. When all is said and done, the most important thing here is to have fun. I fail to see the fun in it if the only reason you're participating in the contest in the first place is just to win some awards. Personally, I'd do away with most of the trophies and give recognition to works that really stand out in the form of "honorable mentions", but I don't run the contest and I don't make the rules. If you can accept the terms of the contest, then great. If you can't, no one's forcing you to stay. It's one thing to disagree with contest results, but it's something entirely different to be all pouty and sour over it. Judges are people like the rest of us, and they're certainly entitled to their own opinions.
     
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  10. Natsumi

    Natsumi Markey's Member

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    To second Sonic Boom, the judges are all great, and know their shit. Given how short the judging times have been in the part, its much harder to make the absolutely best results at all times, but I think they have still done very good in the past. And to me what ruined the contest last year was everyone being so salty they didn't win all the cool shit they wanted. Some people even went to the lengths of complaining on the forums about me not winning something I supposedly should have. As I said then, I completely agree with the judges decision and it is pretty annoying people would go defending me when I am capable of doing it myself. And if it really bothers you they cant give everyone a medal saying how awesome they are, then dont enter in it to begin with, and just imagine everyone cheering for your special hack. I dont want the salty bullshit this year, too
     
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  11. Spanner

    Spanner Sonic Hacking Contest Organiser Administrator

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    It doesn't matter what it is, people will still find something to complain about.
     
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  12. Mike B Berry

    Mike B Berry A grandiose return Member

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    I'm not bashing on anyone or about the contest in any way, shape or form, but its merely crap. The contests over the previous years haven't been as clean as they had aimed to be. That's perfectly fine by me, as I don't even care to participate. In honesty about the ordeal, the community was always known for making the simplest bullshit excuses that I've considered to be uncalled for, and it always will. Every community has its fair share of uncalled for behavior and other drastic situations. That isn't to say that I find them wholesome or the right choices to have been made per-se, if you have beef, don't enter the contest. Nobody is forcing you to dwell in the past, Don't even speak about it if it gets you off in a bad mood. These are some of the many reasons why I left the community for such an extended period of time. It's also sad that my grandiose return had to pan out into reading nothing but butt hurt postings and rage. Fairly amusing in my opinion, but still sad among other things. Nothing ever changes here.

    As for the judges, I can't personally say I agree with everyone who's a part of this. Nor do I care, in honesty. I've mentioned in my downtime that I'll still be on board to see what's going to be entered, but I won't bask in the pressure of voting for a hack that's more or less likely to win. A lot of the people here might disagree, and that's joy of the community. Again, it's exactly the same as it's always been, filled with returned rejects of the last era of the community, noobs, bad attitudes, lots of redundancy, whining from a slew of upset hackers, and those who just want to find amusement in hacking, period. It will never change, but I will say that I'm done here, in this thread. I'll find other topics to enjoy reading, not saying I got a kick out of this one. Just anything that won't have to do with a simple contest IMO. It's been spoiled for me since the 2012 contest.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  13. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester Julie knew her killer. Member

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    Why don't you just save us all time, and hand me the trophies now~

    EDIT: For the record, I never saw the post above mine when posting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  14. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic Also known as RHS Retired Staff

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    Okay, I think it's time I got a say.

    First of all, let me be honest with you. I also had a slight issue with MarkeyJester (MJ) taking home 48% of the trophies, but that's only because the contest was delayed by 2 months, and he made his hack in only 3. Making me think that if the contest was on time, MJ wouldn't have entered, and other hacks would have had a chance of winning.

    BUT, saying that, that's not MJ's fault; nor is it the judges. We all got an extra 2 months to finish (even though I was already done by April). MJ took advantage of that, and created an awesome hack, and my goodness, The Next LEvel did deserve a lot of trophies. Sorry, but it did, it has great art, music, gimmicks, the works. We can't penalise him just because he made a too good of a hack. How would you feel if you created the next big thing and the judges say, "Here's first place, but no more trophies for you!"? You'd be pretty annoyed thinking, "Well, what trophies back me up for getting first place?"

    What does annoy me though, is that he took my Casinopolis trophy; I wanted that! =P

    And at the end of the day, I'm glad that this happened, because it did tick a few people off, and judges have now decided to bring the runner-up mentions back. If it wasn't for MJ's hack, then the runner's up may have been absent from this years contest.

    ProjectFM brought his suggestion to the table, and that's cool, we have something to discuss about. There's nothing to get upset over and get at each other's throats. We just give our say and let people have theirs. We wanto to have debates; not arguments.



    That is unfortunately true. Not just with the contest, but with anything in life. We have over 1,000 members here (even if not all of them are active), but you're never going to please them all. You should do what makes sense to you; you are the leader of the project after all. All we can do is say our opinion and it's up to you to take it on board or not. And if there is anything you ever do that brings up-roar, we'll certainly let you know (like the Shadow trophy or what we are currently discussing about) and you have to make a choice from there. Either make changes to keep people happy, or say "that's not going to happen because [reasons]" and end it with that. If people don't like it, then they can leave.



    Are we getting the Second Level? Or even Chu Chu? ^_^



    He's just joking because it's his hack we were discussing. I normally wouldn't allow this sort of one liner joke but seeming as it's his hack we're discussing, I think we can let him have this. It's entirely up to you if you want to go out of the door, no one is stopping you, but it's not like anyone is going on at you. Hell, even MJ liked your previous post, doesn't that show he agrees with you in some sense?



    Sorry Mr Admin, but if anyone else started posting videos or memes in this thread in retaliation to someone else's post, I think we would have had a problem with it.
     
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  15. FireRat

    FireRat "The grand imitator..." Member

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    Does not "First place" actually mean that the work is good as a whole? That includes the artwork, music, gimmicks, badniks, anything from inside...

    Perhaps it may explain the feel of confusion here... ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  16. CaveQuest

    CaveQuest Creator and moderator for the telephone projects Member

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    Have to agree with Spanner, Redhotsonic and Natsumi.
     
  17. Novedicus

    Novedicus Well-Known Member Member

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    I'm pretty it means that it's the best of what was entered. It doesn't have to be good. An example of that happening if every single hack that was entered were terrible, so the best of what's been entered would win it.
     
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  18. FireRat

    FireRat "The grand imitator..." Member

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    Uh, sorry for badly expressing myself if I did, but that is not the point.
    What make a good game? The quality of its contents and the proper balance within all its parts, make the player feel pleased to play and to have fun.

    Here it seems that the "common" (or maybe "brute", whatever you call it) mindset is, that for example, the levels from a game that stands out the rest "has" to have better obstacles than the rest; like sticking to the "balance" factor way too strictly. From this point of view, it feels like giving a prize for 1st place and another one for a badnik to the same project, does not "feel" too fair.

    EDITS: Clearification, better redaction
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  19. Xeal

    Xeal Resident Smart-Ass Staff

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    I love how this entire thread has basically turned into "Let's make the Sonic Hacking Contest not an actual contest".
    MarkeyJester made good shit last year and he won a lot of trophies for it. If any one of you had the same expertise as he did you would have gotten the same treatment. Why? Because you would have made good shit to. Christ guys some of you are appearing as if you want their to be some "equality" of some sorts in a contest. Why don't people just give the person who finished 2nd place the gold medal? Or the person who's finishing last in the delegate pool a parties nomination (which can actually happen but the point still stands). Either get good at learning how to make some really neat things with the hardware, or stop complaining that someone won to many trophies. I'm surprised with all of these responses that no one has tried to say to ban Markey from the contest :v

    Get better. Learn. Make something mind blowing and win a fuck ton of trophies. You're not getting looked down upon if you put blood, sweat and tears into your hack and someone else won more than you did. Someone will always be first place.
     
  20. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester Julie knew her killer. Member

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    As one of the people who has strongly requested the trashing of shit posting, and over the top joking, for example, a post I requested to the staff not long ago:

    [​IMG]

    I couldn't agree more with your statement, you are 100% correct, and I feel the same way. However, you've aimed at the wrong person. My mild joke there does not compare to the shit posting of others on this board, nowhere near as bad. As you can see, I've been one of the people preventing it. I am not a robot though, as a former staff member with experience, I know all to well that you have to be "reasonable", you have to set a bent line that of which some can step out of line "just slightly" as I have done in my previous post on my page, joking about just handing me the trophies. But not of which some can step out and go overboard like the link I shared in that screenshot there.

    It's a matter of balance, being strict to a certain degree.

    I accept your response since I agree with it, and have agreed with it since before you posted it, but I will not accept you making out as if I'm one of the people going overboard, and as if my minor joke there is in any way comparable to the other atrocities, that seem to think a yellow bus is funny, and tagging "BUT IS IT!" on then end like a fucking "& Knuckles" token.

    Please note, when I posted my previous post, I didn't even notice you posted before it since I "post and go" most of the time, so it wasn't a personal response to your post (just clarifying here so you know it's nothing personal).

    EDIT: Also, on topic, I actually agree with this post right here.
    ...like I said in the previous hacking contest thread, I would like to see a "runners up" like we used to, last years seemed rather "empty" to say the least, I didn't even know who came close to winning, apart from the community trophies. Those that didn't win, may need more exposure to encourage them to push harder for next year, it's no good if they don't know that they were say; 1 vote away from winning or something...
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
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