Sonic The Hedgehog & Ashuro

Discussion in 'Showroom' started by Ashuro, Sep 17, 2016.

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  1. CaveQuest

    CaveQuest The Draco Centauros Main in Puyo Puyo Member

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    I am still severly disappointed in this hack. It's unfair with it's spikes and mostly all enemy placement and you did jack shit with the bottomless pits and also at this area you can die from falling through the ground https://gyazo.com/f0e356be67f8527145d1ad9c7af4676c
     
  2. Ashuro

    Ashuro Well-Known Member Member

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    Please, try to reflect, it's like you having childrens, you like only yours, not every childs.
    Now i will not responding to messages that talk about fan characters.
    I have make this hack in this goal: Sonic for those who don't like fan-characters, and Ashuro for those who don't care.
    And I see that even then they are people who come to complain about Ashuro.

    Yes, i know that Frozen Island is a BIG PROBLEM, i'm actually making a completely new level layout.
    For the rest, keep in mind that my hack isn't perfect. In some levels, there is a lot of spikes, like Pyramid Trap, and others like Frozen where there is a lot of badniks.
     
  3. Pacca

    Pacca Why succeed when you can profit off of failure? Member

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    This kind of self-centered attitude is not a good thing. Yes, we do all feel better about our own works, and get more excited about and more forgiving of them as a result. But using that as a reason to shutout criticisms is a bad thing. I feel that everyone starts out releasing absolutely shitty work as their first hack solely because of this feeling, and those who drown themselves in this feeling consistently release shit. It's not good to do this, even for a small portion of the game. If you release something, you have to keep in mind the overall enjoy-ability to others. You can't be a slave to others opinions, of course, but at least give valid reasons and hear them out.

    I'll admit, a lot of people have biased opinions on fan characters, and, as far as Ashuro goes, he's better then the typical Sonic clone, but not anything special. I like that he's in the game, as his art and moveset is fleshed out, and offers a different experience. I don't quite agree with some of the criticisms in this regard and can see where your coming from. But basically telling people to shut up and ignore the topic seems rude and narrow-sighted to me.
     
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  4. Ashuro

    Ashuro Well-Known Member Member

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    I think your opinion is much more constructive, and i'm glad. First of:
    I answer this way because I'm just tired of this kind of remarks after so many efforts.
    I have posted this hack because i want to share my work, but it's not a new SEGA game or a AAA game or anything like. Just a fucking rom hack by a beginner.
    Well i'm getting used to the criticism and acharnements, but over time , it becomes tiring, because my hack = criticism, my character = criticism, my answers = criticism, my activities here criticism, ME = criticism...
    In this hack, i did everything by saying "SSRG's peoples want to me to do this, this and this, they think it will be as well like this and this" But EVEN with this thought in mind, it's the same after all.
    And when i see some hackers making another palette hack and receive good comments, i just want to say WHAT THE FUCK??! What I have done too well in their eyes ?

    Since the time I'm here , I begin to think that there is only suckers and frustrated haters here. (instead of some exceptions, but as luck would have also been in the same situation as me, i will not mention usernames, they recognize themselves.
    And again this is why this is my last hack, and why i will get out of here soon.
    I was happy to belong to this community, but now i'm disgusted
     
  5. StephenUK

    StephenUK Working on a Quackshot disassembly Administrator

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    To be honest, I've been quite disgusted in your general attitude. Some people who have genuinely tried to help you have been met with a sharp response which not only played down their issue but also made out that they were a cunt to even dare question your decision to start with. You have to remember, whenever something is released to the public, it will be subject to criticism. That applies to AAA titles or indie titles alike, and this is no different. If you can't handle the fact that people don't like your hack, then don't release it and keep it for yourself. People here have expectations, and it's not their fault if what you release doesn't meet them. You should have waited until the hack was more polished to release it.

    One final note, nobody releases hacks that are just palette changes anymore and get praise for it, so that right there is bullshit. The community has moved on a lot since those days. As a side note, I personally find your frozen island palette to be an awful eyesore, but hey, can't please everyone.
     
  6. Xeal

    Xeal The Nuke Retired Staff

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    Because of your abhorrent ignorance I'm just going to kindly point this out to you. Any hate or dislike that you receive from people here is because of you. Your actions scream of arrogance and ignorance, not heeding to any form of criticism and feeling as if "because you like x then it can't be questioned in any sense (which is quite odd, having such an egotistical mildest whilst doing nothing that could have ever put you on a high horse to begin with). Get your head out of your ass and grow the fuck up please. People across this board have been consistently trying to help you yet all you do is needlessly bite people's heads off and whine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
  7. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic Also known as RHS Retired Staff

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    redhotsonic in 2003 everyone!

    Ashuro, you may not like it, and I know it can hurt when people criticise your work when you're only a beginner, but it comes as part of the job. Instead of defending yourself and getting upset like a spoilt boy, just take a deep breathe, take the punches on the chin, and learn from what they are saying. Most of their criticism is to help you. When I say most, I mean if everybody is moaning about these bottomless pits, then don't you think something is wrong? It's no good if you like the bottomless pits but no one else does; no one will play your hack and no one will praise it. Remember, it's about pleasing the community and not yourself IF you're going to release it to the public.


    As for the fan-character bashing, again, for you it's just another day in the office. When I joined back in 2003, I got ripped to shreds (I was even forced to abbreviate my name at one point [RHS]). And to be honest, who could blame people:

    [​IMG]
    redhotsonic's Emerald Search

    [​IMG] - [​IMG]
    Red Hot Sonic 2 v0.50


    I showed these hacks off, and got torn a new one. It hurt (not literally), but with people's advice, some help here and there, I started to improve and get some praise that I always wanted:

    [​IMG]
    Red Hot Sonic 2 v0.90


    Years later, I'm now allowed to have an unabbreviated name, became Staff of SSRG, a Tech member of Sonic Retro, special privileges here and at Sonic Retro, became a well-known respected member (don't laugh, Stephen), and have created these games that people know and (sort-of) love today:

    [​IMG] - [​IMG]
    Sonic 2 Recreation - Sonic Bash


    tl;dr - My point is, instead of taking everyone's comments to heart, why not take their advice on board, do something about it, and that way, people will start to like your hacks. And Ashuro the Badger will become more known and liked. Yes, criticism can become tiring over time, but that will never EVER go away, but you learn to accept it (yes, even I still get criticised).

    P.S. I still get nasty comments every now and then from other places (Google+ or player.me) saying "Ugh, a recolour, get lost". That, unfortunately, is just life because they haven't heard of me yet.
     
  8. Misinko

    Misinko YOU FOOLS! YOU MESSED WITH THE NATURAL ORDER! Staff

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    This attitude right here is why this community doesn't like you. You've got some weird pseudo delusion of grandeur where you've convinced yourself that everyone here hates you because you ask for help too much and you have a fan character. That's not the case. We dislike you because of the nature of the questions that you ask, and because of your general attitude. You put no effort into solving problems yourself before asking for help, you ask how do to things before you even attempt to do them yourself, and you think that everyone's out to get you. What you need to do is chill out, poke around with your code a little before asking questions, and use the bloody search bar at the top of the forum. Another thing you're doing wrong is brushing off criticism. Telling people who tell you they have an issue with your bottomless pits that you like bottomless pits is NOT the appropriate response. You don't trivialize critique. Furthermore, you don't brush it off entirely. If you're trying to make a game that the community will enjoy, which you've made it clear that you are, then listen to our grievances and take them into account. You've fought against every little piece of critique everyone has given you, and you've only responded positively to the people who are praising your hacks. If you want to improve your standing in the community, look at what it's telling you and take it into account. If someone tells you that you need to do some research before you ask a question, don't childishly declare that you're never going to ask another question, take their advice into account before you ask a question. When someone asks you for some backstory on your character, don't withhold the information, give them something. When someone tells you to remove the bottomless pits in your hack, don't brush it off. Think before you act.

    And honestly, I like the changes you've made from what I've played. Your level design is far more varied and fun to explore, and your enemy placement is very fair. The only gripes I've had is that your levels get too on-rails at times, but with a little polish, I think you could shape up to be a fine community member. However, with your current attitude, I won't be sad to see you go. We'd honestly be better off without negative people like you mucking up the experience for everyone else.

    Two days late, but we've had this discussion in the last two threads dedicated to Ashuro. It doesn't need to be talked about here.
     
  9. LordXernom

    LordXernom Well-Known Member Member

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    I think Ashuro just need a time to change his attitude. We can tell others, but the change for better depends from themselves.
     
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  10. Pacca

    Pacca Why succeed when you can profit off of failure? Member

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    How was my prior post constructive? I was talking about you, not the hack. Plus, I give zero criticism that could actually be applied to bettering the game on their own.

    Those "remarks" are acknowledging your efforts and pushing you to succeed in your coding and game building life. The vast majority of us actually find this hack promising, and want you to continue working on it.


    What's your point? We know this. We don't expect you to release Sega quality work. We're actually giving you rather polite criticism, and only asking for changes you could reasonably do (for example, removing death pits). We're aware of your limitations, and would never, say complain that there are too few asm changes.

    That criticism is a GOOD thing. It's supposed to help you grow. That was the main point of my prior post, and I feel that this went right over your head. Just think it over, instead of brushing it off and marking the people who try to help you out as assholes.

    This sentence makes almost no sense to me. Please work on your sentence structure, it can be very difficult to interpret what you mean. Did you see what I just did there? I gave useful criticism. If you take that to heart, and work on your grammar, then it will have the effect I intended it to have.

    Who the fuck makes palette hacks these days? Even the noobiest of noobs can't resist mussing up the level layouts, and even hacks with unmodified level layouts tend to have significant ASM changes. Do you have any examples of this?

    No one hates you 0_0

    Seriously, your work, while clearly still WIP, is better then the average beginners work, and most people here see that. Plus, I've only seen like 2, maybe 3 posts that actively hate on you or this hack; the vast majority of posts try to help you learn proper level design. If teaching someone how to make more entertaining levels makes them a "sucker" or a "frustrated hater", then what the fuck are we supposed to do? Your hack isn't perfect, and there are some things that need adjusting. Ignoring those who suggest tweaks and improvements is like putting on headphones in class; your going to miss vital information which could have made you a better worker and even a better person in the long run.

    I... I... I can't... just.... why? We haven't been insulting you. We want this hack to be good, almost as much as you do. We're not trying to exclude you or anything, the community is treating you exactly the same as they would treat anyone else, from me to RHS to even when MJ first came onto the scene. We don't hate you...

    What did we do 0_o Seriously, could you give some examples of when we were as awful as you suggest? Because the few I've seen shouldn't be nearly enough to brand all of SSRG as troll and haters. The site is geared to remove trolls, haters, etc. In the trialist phase. That's why it exists. It allows us to keep a productive, friendly community, and it's remained that way for quite some time.

    I apologize for the massive wall of text...
     
  11. sham1

    sham1 Newcomer Member

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    I agree with what Pacguy here said. That said, I have a feeling that all those comments about us "hating him" are just there to collect some pity points. But yeah, I'd love to see the hack progress. It certainly has some problems, but it's your first hack so they can be understood. It does have a lot of potential. Just try to get your attitude and ego and bride out of this and it will go better. This is just a hobby like everything else, no need to take critique so personally.
     
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  12. LordXernom

    LordXernom Well-Known Member Member

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    Eh, I hope this project will not be cancelled like others, because I LOVE Ashuro WIP hacks, because it's first OC hack I ever seen that have potential. You touched ASM, new art, you started making new custom SMPS... Dude, don't leave us please, criticism is for improvement, not for rage quit and say to all members, fuck off, I'm doing good/because I like this shit. I don't want lost another promising project and hacker. If you'll do it, I'll never forgive you and I'll haunt you. :p :)
     
  13. Blazer

    Blazer Lurker Member

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    Well this is quite the drama I see. Anyway, I took the time to try this and while it caught my interest, you're overall attitude towards everyone as I've been reading through here is just uncalled for man. all they are trying to do is help you fix whatever needs to be fixed but all you keep doing is rebelling against it claiming that everyone is so called "hating" or "bashing" on your work when were really just trying to help you improve upon it. defeats the purpose of criticism if you can't take the pressure of it. it's something we all had to go through and still even now. hell I had to back when I first joined back in 09 and like you as a beginner at the time, my first hack also featured a fan character as well [Sky the hedgehog] and while the feedback that was received wasn't the best, I didn't just go and give up. I used it as a form of motivation to get better and improve upon my skills in making my hacks more appealing the best that I could. in short, the way I see it, If you can't take the pressure of criticism, then like you said you don't really need to be here right now because at the rate this is going with everyone trying to help you, the cycle of sharp responses will continue and I doubt anyone wants to keep seeing that.
     
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  14. Ashuro

    Ashuro Well-Known Member Member

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    Okay everyone, after reading all your comments, i will answer for you all. First, thanks to Pacguy, RedHotSonic and LordXenom, and everyone else.
    I don't know if my english will be correct.
    For my behavior , I apologize , I have a rather complicated private life, and when i crack, i assaulted everyone. i want to be honest with you all.
    I was physically and mentally abused by a violent stepfather, when i was 11, until my 14. He constantly belittled me and beat my mother and my brother.
    Because of this, today i cannot support slights and criticisms. it reminds me those events...
    So i'm sorry everyone, i do not want your pity, but just that you learn to know me, i know that everytime i'm rude with you all, but it's just a defense method (unintentional).

    So right now, i'm actually working in my Frozen Island, i've said above that i making a completely new level layout, with a good palette that don't hurt eyes, i read all your comments from the begining to really fix the problems.
    And i will try to make better sprites of Ashuro the badger, to make him not look like a Sonic's recolor, but look like in my avatar.
    I REALLY want to make effort, i will now accept all the critics.
    I want to stop being frowned by my bad attitude. I want to share you my work and i want you to have fun with. That's all.
    I will change.
     
  15. AbyssalLeopard

    AbyssalLeopard Well-Known Member Member

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    Look, frankly, I'm glad that you are planning to try to moderate your attitude. I do know you have decent intentions, but your way of acting here was at times worrying, because... Come on, when we are pointing out your hack's faults, what we really want is you being satisfied and get wonderful results! How do you think I improved through time?! Showing, asking, listening and improving. It's vital, man, nobody is born knowing!

    Another thing, I know this might not be the best place to give personal advice, but I feel like it's necessary, so... If I were you, I wouldn't publish such personal information and such problems here in the Internet. If you want us to know why you were acting like that, just tell us you have had several personal problems, but... I reiterate I don't think it's a good idea to specify those problems right here.

    Moving onto the hack itself... I like it in general, I can't complain about the level layouts much. Though again, some level palettes don't look that good to me; what quite confused me though, is how there are some palettes that look wonderful, whilst others look like a random mess of colours (SLZ2, for example, not to be a blunt, but that was the impression it gave me, sorry). You should also look up how to fix Deep Crystal, since it crashed when I first played the game. Another problem would be the lack of gimmicks in most zones, save Green Hill and another zone I might not remember - make sure you place a wide range of gimmicks (without exceeding yourself), since that's what makes a zone FEEL refreshing!

    Music was okay, I especially loved how the Tetris BGM started sounding in Industrial Zone 3 after the Chaotix melody beginning. Unexpected! In a good way. Concluding now, you have slightly improved, but I'd look up what other people and I pointed out. Oh, and before I forget, you get a cookie from me for almost making a game completable. That's something you don't see every day.
     
  16. Misinko

    Misinko YOU FOOLS! YOU MESSED WITH THE NATURAL ORDER! Staff

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    What do you mean by "almost" completeable? I've managed to beat it 3 times.
     
  17. AbyssalLeopard

    AbyssalLeopard Well-Known Member Member

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    I meant finished, sorry for the inaccuracy. SBZ3 seemed to have the same layout as the original, that's why I said almost.
     
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  18. Ashuro

    Ashuro Well-Known Member Member

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    Thank you, i'll try to do my best, i will polish my work.

    But for the SLZ's palette, this is intentional, i want a zone that's bright like a rainbow, i also want to add some ballons (but i need to learn more about objects i think :D)
    I'm still on the Frozen Island's remake.
    When i have finished this, i will polish all the zones, add some objects and change some palettes (and palette cycling)...

    I don't know if i will post here a 3th build, or waiting for the contest...
     
  19. ProjectFM

    ProjectFM Optimistic and self-dependent Member

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    It's entirely possible to make a palette both bright and pleasing to look at. I'd rather have a nice looking palette than a more fitting palette, anyways.

    I think the best thing for you to do is to improve your hack as much as you can before the submissions deadline. Just tweak the level layouts, change things a little, big test, and make things as polished as possible for the contest. Just don't do anything too big just in case you don't finish it before the deadline. Sure, you could release the build you have now if you really want to, but I think of the hacking contest as a sort of Christmas where I get to play new hacks and new builds of old hacks so I think it would make the most sense to see a build there that I can compare to 2nd build than the 3rd build. The improvement would be more dramatic.

    It's your choice, I'm just giving my thoughts.
     
  20. Ashuro

    Ashuro Well-Known Member Member

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    I think you're right ProjectFM, i'll waiting for the contest and i will polish all my hack, like i've said above ;)
    But sorry, when is the deadline?
     
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