Let's make SSRG better

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback Archive' started by Oerg866, Jul 7, 2009.

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  1. Oerg866

    Oerg866 Well-Known Member Member

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    I had a short discussion with SOTI in the IRC really. Let's let logs talk:



    Code:
    <SOTI> haha Selbi saying that Shadowbeasts is an ASM genius
    
    <SOTI> what was he smoking?
    
    * roxahris hat die Verbindung getrennt &#40;Ping timeout&#41;
    
    <Oerg866> SOTI&#58; sauerkraut
    
    <SOTI> rofl
    
    <SOTI> these idiots ruin the SSRG
    
    <SOTI> and the staff don&#39;t care
    
    <Oerg866> Agreed.
    
    <SOTI> like when Nik looked at the new SSRG he never went back
    
    <SOTI> because of how it&#39;s been run down
    
    <SOTI> the main feature is infested with idiots
    
    <SOTI> and &#34;beginner hacks&#34;
    
    <SOTI> and most of the staff don&#39;t go there
    
    <LoliBot> and most influential bands of all of this build?
    
    <SOTI> Ordos owns it but doesn&#39;t do anything
    
    <Oerg866> Exactl&#39;lee
    
    <SOTI> and Qjimbo likes how this place is run
    
    <SOTI> yeah, glowing bridge 2
    
    <SOTI> there&#39;s literally nothing that&#39;s special about the place
    
    <SOTI> no wonder it&#39;s trollbait 
    
    <SOTI> the only time that the SSRG is active is when drama goes down
    
    <Oerg866> Yes
    
    <SOTI> in b4 you make a topic about this
    
    <SOTI> but Qjimbo needs to learn
    
    <SOTI> if he wants a place to be good
    
    <SOTI> he needs to clear up the shit
    
    <SOTI> Ordos needs to do something as well
    
    <SOTI> but literally nobody cares
    
    <SOTI> some people just use the SSRG because they can&#39;t use retro
    
    <LoliBot> some people think
    
    <SOTI> that&#39;s it really

    Please, staff, don't see this as an empty rant. We're not ranting. Just trying to make clear that a bit of change would bring more success to the site.


    No A-Class hackers (no, I don't think that I am one or someone else here is, except maybe some of the admins/mods) are on this board. No tech-guys either.


    What is the case is that they've obviously drawn away from the site because of its infection of, no, I won't call them noobs, but people new to hacking. When they come to SSRG FIRST, they'll think that they're better than the rest because there's seemingly no competition amongst this board, lack of techies, so to say.


    I think you may want to put the current stuff into a noob category and start making some good decisions to get more advanced members here. SSRG has, judging from the site, been around since 1996 - I can't see how this place could've been run that far that all oldbies and tech guys and whatever left SSRG other than human failure of administration.


    That's not supposed to be an insult, again, I'm just making suggestions here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2009
  2. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas Retro 80's themed Paladins Twich streamer Member

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    This. I look back at how this place was back on 2006-2007, and even that puts this to shame. When I joined, this place was like Sonic Retro is now, the place for every tech-savvy member to hangout and post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2009
  3. amphobius

    amphobius spreader of the pink text Member

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    I'm not going to judge and point the finger -- as it's just rude, however, what has happened to the SSRG in the recent few months has made it lose it's touch. I remember when I joined here, I mean, I thought cool stuff was going on and shit, and yet when I look at it now..


    Well all I can say it's a mess.


    I'm going to be completely honest here, the staff aren't running the boards here, the members are. And when I first joined, it wasn't a democracy, it was a dictatorship. And now, what has happened to this dictatorship? Demolished. Demolished to the depths of hell, via the imcampable ones. It isn't fair on the ones, namely the ones who still want a proper dictatorship, as we have to baby the idiots around here. We also having the staff, trying to lighten the tone.


    First off, what tone? Ordos is an angry man. While he isn't really as active as Q, I believe he can still make the site run. Qjimbo, however, is another story. With him making new staff, the whole drama arose. Namely, people who knew what they wanted were having to be nursed to the quality of the idiots. I wasn't happy, when my post was edited, as it had a very clear point. Also, has anyone noticed the swarms of new people, that have been ruining the boards, without researching their questions first? It almost seems as if they're not even trying, and trying to get someone else to do that. I mean sure, I'm fine with people asking me for music; not many people have a good enough skill to do it properly. However, when someone just goes out of the blue, wanting a code without even trying to do it themselves, well, fuck them I suppose.


    What I want to see done is the tone not lowered. I do not want babies asking for the milk -- I want men who strive for the best.
     
  4. iojnekns

    iojnekns OBAMA '012!!!!1!!!!!&#33 Member

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    I find it funny that you've posted this, as though you dudes aren't equally as moronic as the 'noobs' you don't like. The only difference is that they aren't in your gang. Really, I've seen you guys spend like 2 hours in IRC, just asking the bot to chat about one person repeatedly for hours on end, then cackling at the cycled responses, drawing ms-paint images of pure unfunny shit based around the fact that some of you are german and there was also a dictator who was german - and thats when you're playing nice and not flinging shit at each other. Then you come and say "the main feature is infested with idiots" with a completely straight face. I thought it was kind of obvious, but if you want some hacks that aren't "beginner hacks" to be associated with this site (whatever that is) then make a hack that isn't one. There is nothing stopping you, although admittedly you would have less time to have a little moan about these websites as though they are some kind of public service that you are paying for and demand satisfaction from. Incidentally, I can totally see why Retro has a bunch of impressive hacks associated with it - it has an extremely useful wiki, not to mention the absolute goldmine of information present in the forums. It 'grows' resourceful members and then they give back to it. Instead of discouraging and mocking people like shadowbeasts and Selbi you should be helping them, encouraging them and training them up. Oddly enough, all I've ever seen them talk about on these forums is Sonic hacking, where as you guys seem to smell a flame war a mile a way and are the first to the party.


    For the record, I'd rather not descend into yet another Retro vs SSRG pissing contest - they're just websites, if they bother you, don't visit them as often.
     
  5. Spanner

    Spanner The Tool Member

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    iojnekns: This is in no way a "Retro vs SSRG contest", what I meant is that a while back the influx of new members was partially due to to the fact that they were either denied validation or banned on Retro. If a comparison was to be made, then it's obvious that Retro has a strong community and lots of content while the SSRG is flooded by question topics and threads in which people ask for help for their shitty hack.


    Hacktube seems to be the most important feature of "SSRG 2.0", however it is moderated poorly. A lot of people are joining simply for this service which contains poorly made hacks. There should at least be a few guidelines made before even submitting a hack. Nobody wants to download a hack with a purple Sonic running along a Straight Line Zone with Azure Lake playing in the background.


    As for the staff issue, there is only a few staffers who frequent the forums. Ordos is busy with things, I know. Because of the lack of active staff, Qjimbo is having to do all the work himself, which is indeed unfortunate. It's good that he revived this place, but this forum can be sometimes be described as "a play park".


    To resolve this issue, there needs to be rules that clearly has guidelines on what is acceptable on the SSRG. I'm going to give an example. Shadowbeasts frequently requests for stuff for his hack that has absolutely nothing. There are many resources this community has and people should read them. The warning system was removed because it apparently ruins things. If the SSRG forums can't improve, then it's obvious that they need to be worked on further, if that includes closing them down for a short period of time whilst stuff is sorted out.


    I'm sorry to those who think that I'm on a crusade to get stuff sorted out. I like learning about the history of the community and comparing the previous incarnations of the SSRG to this place, it's just horrible.
     
  6. Oerg866

    Oerg866 Well-Known Member Member

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    Gang? What gang? I dislike SOTI quite a bit, but I had to agree on this one.

    I do it only if there's not much going on. There was no conversation for hours and I wanted to see what LoliBot had to say. Plus, you can't have a little fun? Oh come on.

    I've never, ever drawn an image from the likes of what SOTI did and I hate him for making fun of my nation because of something happening more than sixty years ago. -- again this is not related in any way. You keep thinking of us two as two who are a gaylover group who really love and would like to have SSRG changed for them -- This is wrong. This is completely wrong in any case. We just agree on that SSRG in its current state is not what it probably can develop out of its potential that it has been carrying around for the last years. (While I can't for sure say that exactly from anything pre-2006 as I've only seen those on archived versions of the sites)

    Yes. But, Have you ever seen how shadowbeast reacts to everything? And what he demands? And how he's a complete idiot? He comes into SSRG, and goes on it with a completely wrong altitude. He expects to be better than most of the people because he doesn't find anything of better quality on the forums here. I'd have posted my hack, but, even though it is probably not one of the best ones, it does bare a pretty high quality to its soundtrack (with the originality to it, which is the fact that by now almost every level has at least one self-composed piece of music in it, in contrast to other hacks with just MIDIs or XMs taken and converted). But, guess why I didn't do that yet: The amount of people here which don't know what they're talking about makes it unprobable to find any sort of acceptance, because they'll be all like "OMFG IT'S NOT PERFECT!!11" even though they have no clue about what a) the system itself can do, B) the music engine can do. Again, I'm happily fine with being proven wrong.


    It's just that it's not just my opinion that SSRG is overflooded of noobs who claim they're the best hackers ever. They can freely post their bad hacks and other bullshit without anyone saying -- Hey, wait, it might be a good start but it's definately not something new or even good. Look here: <link> -- You might want to do a little bit of reading here. Or similar. And that's what probably makes SSRG so tech-less - I haven't seen a decent hacker here posting in a lot of time (except this shadow realm guy, I love Sonic Lost Land, played it on hardware once, or I think redhotsonic.). Nineko told me he doesn't go to SSRG anymore.


    I hope I made my actual point a little more clear to you, iojnekns :)


    EDIT: Oh, soti was faster. And I completely agree with him again. While *I'm* banned from coughretrocough, it certainly wasn't because of my lack of technical knowledge. It was because I was an asshole to people (most of which I now have a lot of respect for, I don't know how people think about me nowadays.)


    Also, I think this place needs more people in a high position, moderators/administrators. I am concerned that the concept of self-moderation didn't work out here all too well. Qjimbo should've chosen another administrator for the time he was performing his move to "the backwoods of canada". :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2009
  7. Ollie

    Ollie Well-Known Member Member

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    I tottally agree with iojnekns here. Although back to your originally post Oerg, we're just going have to live with it or leave, I'm afraid. :)
     
  8. Irixion

    Irixion Well-Known Member Member

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    SOTI--if that's how you feel then don't come here. Simple as that. I come here because it's not retro. I'm not going to go saying why retro's this and retro's that. But seriously. Don't compare two different websites.
     
  9. voice

    voice Well-Known Member Member

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    People have lives and can't be on the Internet 24/7 like me or Tweaker (sorry Tweaker, but you can't deny the fact that you're online quite a fucking bit). While I'm sure the hacktube is poorly handled right now, I know fuck-all about hacks and hacking in general, I think the problem is its rather difficult to find someone who is right for the job, you don't want someone who is going to be like "well I just don't like this person" *deleted* nor would you want some clueless fuck such as myself moderating it, the problem is rather complex.


    Also, I believe the phrase "we were all n00bs once" comes into play, I'm sure back in the day none of you even knew what the fuck hex editing even was and asked on a forum or chatroom only to be mocked by those in the know.


    I figured I'd end this on a somewhat humorous note so here we go:



    Code:
    <iojnekns> so, this is the most full i&#39;ve ever seen #ssrg
    
    <iojnekns> its usually just voice and chanserv and a bottle of red.
     
  10. Ollie

    Ollie Well-Known Member Member

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    I always thought that the uploading method should be approached differently. I say a better way of using hacktube is to showcase released hacks from this forum. That way the creator of a hack can receive criticism and a way of communication with the other members on how to improve there hack, at the moment people are just directly uploading there hacks just because THEY like it. Then if the hack has had a good reception from the members in the forum then it should be showcased in hacktube.


    Something along the lines of that should weed out those horrid hacks that are clogging up hacktube.
     
  11. iojnekns

    iojnekns OBAMA '012!!!!1!!!!!&#33 Member

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    Okay, by 'gang', I'm referring to the people which idle in the #ssrg channel - I'm not trying to infer that you are best friends, but regardless of what you claim, you idle in a channel with him day in day out. You inevitably talk to each other in there. These other people you are lambasting, (mainly shadowbeasts, i think) do not. Do you see?


    And yes, I do like to have fun, and I understand that you were bored and trying to entertain yourselves, but it just wouldn't be my idea of fun at all. To each their own and all that jazz, but I thought it illustrated my point pretty well - its hardly the most high brow entertainment you could find. I just thought it was a nice juxtaposition of you guys calling people morons whilst the bot spat inane phrases and you guys went on about 'krauts' or whatever. Incidentally, I agree with you completely on the germans=nazi humour that gets flung about - I find it very distasteful. At no point did I infer that you were a 'gaylover group.' How else was I supposed to address you? To refer to you both as 'you' collectively seemed IS appropriate, since you effectively both contributed to the sentiments expressed in the post. I'm not trying to offend you.


    I've never used Hacktube and can't see why anyone would unless they are in a rare circumstance of needing to play a ROM on a public computer. Why not simply download and use an emulator?! This is a rhetorical question - if you use it fair enough, I don't really care why, I just think you are mistaken as to why people visit this site, or at the very least, making an oversimplification.


    Other than that, the only clear thing I can take from either of you is that you don't like shadowbeasts - Oerg, you complain about people pointing out flaws in your work, yet this is more or less exactly what you wish upon shadowbeasts. If you've read literally anything I've written on this forum you'll know I'm a hundred percent with you on not spoon feeding members, or holding their hand through tasks, or trying to get something for nothing, replacing hard work with simple copy-paste guides or anything of that nature. The trouble is, calling him out and effectvely dedicating an entire thread to bitching about him isn't the way forward - theres nothing stopping one of you two from doing as you suggested and saying "Hey, wait, it might be a good start but it's definately not something new or even good. Look here: -- You might want to do a little bit of reading here." Thats what you have your accounts for, right? You don't have to be nasty about it either. You dudes are clearly more active on these forums than the administration, so you can set the tone of the atmosphere. You have more power to change things than they do! Unless they actively stop you, I don't see why you need them to enforce your beliefs.


    At the end of the day, its your opinion that this practice is negative - the forums aren't obliged to cater to you. I know for a fact that Qjimbo is trying to encourage questions to be asked, for help to be given, for general hand-holding to go on. Hell, the actual structure of the forum (questions with points to award) actively fosters this kind of conduct. I don't agree with it either, but its not my forum, so I can't say shit. If I'm to try and make an insight - maybe if you like the way Retro does things so much, you shouldn't have gotten yourself banned in the first place? Thats at you obviously, Oerg.


    If you don't like the way things are run, why don't you set up your own forums? Why should the people who pay for, spend time to maintain and decide what is what on these boards change it merely for you? Perhaps they disagree with you and thats why these forums aren't like the ideal ones you are dreaming of


    On a final note, please don't reply at length - I'm tired of writing essays - and you surely must be tired of reading them. Thats not to say I'm not enjoying discussing things with you guys, I'm just saying, my fingers are tired and shit. I hope you're having a great day.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2009
  12. Irixion

    Irixion Well-Known Member Member

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    IRC conversation.


    I think mods should have the power to warn. I mean--this is a self moderated community, I think that's a great idea. But what's the difference if you're a staff member and a normal member. So, Staff/Mods should be able to warn, and members should still be able to 'moderate'.
     
  13. Qjimbo

    Qjimbo Well-Known Member Member

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    Well I agree this place used to be more like an elite hanging out ground, and it did work well. However, the problem is that back in 2007 when I came in, the forum was completely dead. Most of the important hackers had left SSRG and gone elsewhere, new members had to type up lengthy validation topics to get on the board (meaning many registered but then disappeared), and people were flamed when they bumped a topic, which at that time, was the only way you could reply to a topic because 90% of them were over a month old.


    As I've said time and time again, SSRG can not be run like Retro because, well, retro already exists. What would happen if right now we deleted all the newbies accounts? Most of the people left would also have accounts on Retro, and probably just all go there. The only way I could figure out a way of us having a place in the community is to make a forum more welcoming to newcomers who might just want to make a new sonic level without having to go through the whole community entrance ritual.

    Current stuff? Elaborate.


    By the time I had come on in 2007 all those people had already left. I did manage to get some of them back however but it's quite difficult, especially when we are now in the shadow of Retro. The only failure of the administration was not acting quickly enough to ensure this place wasn't left overtaken for over a year, though with most of the old shadowsoft SSRG content lost in hard disk failures, it wasn't all human.


    Don't get me wrong though, I can see how SSRG puts off technical minded folks and it does disappoint me, but I just figure if we started culling people this place would simply die again. Feel free to keep firing suggestions instead of blunt criticism people :p


    edit: Irixion: Staff now warn verbally and for some time have the power to restrict and suspend accounts. I think that makes them different enough to normal members.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2009
  14. Tweaker

    Tweaker OI! MIRON! Member

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    As an active member of this message board since August of 2004, I can confidently say that this was never the case. The SSRG's appeal was in that it wasn't like Retro, SWS2B, etc ever was--it was much more relaxed and laid back, but at the same time it was--ironically enough--brutal. By all means, you were afraid to say something dumb lest Ordos tear you a new one, and you knew whose side to be on when any kind of conflict occurred. If anything, it was like high school! But damned if it didn't help me and several others learn the ropes and eventually move up in skill and reputation.

    Okay.

    And from 2004-2006, it wasn't. As it seems, SSRG didn't go down the proverbial shitter until its method of administration was altered. What's up with that?
     
  15. Oerg866

    Oerg866 Well-Known Member Member

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    God, no, by any means, this is not a SR <> SSRG fight again, I'm long over this issue. It's more like, gees, the forum *is* kind of dead right now.


    Also I agree with tweaker's last paragraph.


    Plus, I don't know what the IRC has to do with it at all? I was just saying, this place IMO is in need of some revamp that goes in the opposite direction than the current style of things.
     
  16. Spanner

    Spanner The Tool Member

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    The staffing issue seems to have been solved.


    Let's see that the other problems be fixed eventually.
     
  17. Spanner

    Spanner The Tool Member

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    *double post*


    Here are a few suggestions to improve the other factors of the SSRG:


    Website:

    • Some sections of the website are broken.
    • The site design needs to be compatible with all browsers. Currently, there is a fix for IE but Opera has no fix at all.
    • Tutorials section is broken, if this is supposedly being read off the forum then the parsing is fucked.
    • Maybe you could get some people to help you with the website, after all it deserves some love.


    Hacktube:

    • This system needs to be moderated.
    • There needs to be a few requirements that need to be made before a hack is deemed "acceptable". If it isn't, it will be deleted.
    • There needs to be a few rules. Anyone who uploads stolen content will be banned from using the system.


    Forums:

    • As much as Qjimbo wants this place to be newbie-friendly, there should be some guidelines for hacks.
    • Small questions should be asked in the General Q&A Thread.
    • After looking at what's went down before, it's obvious that self-moderation doesn't work here. It allows anyone to backseat-mod and there are people here who have the right to moderate this community and it's their job to do so.
    • Something needs to be done about image resizing. Not everyone has large screens.
     
  18. Tongara

    Tongara Well-Known Member Exiled

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    This right here.

    Actually, from 1999-2006, not including the little gap in 2003. But yeah, you're right.


    So yeah, could people like Hitaxas and Ollie stop assuming stuff about something they were never part of? Thanks.

    Please don't ever say that again. Emulation zone has.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2009
  19. iojnekns

    iojnekns OBAMA '012!!!!1!!!!!&#33 Member

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    You're barking up the wrong tree - the problem is that there are barely any regulars here. Theres all these moderators, and nothing to moderate. You can't force people to come here and whacking a gaudy banner in your sig and swanning about other forums is tacky and degrading. 98% of the memberbase will be dross and 2% will produce exceptional work* (this is probably true of loads of different situations) - the problem being that you need a big solid userbase before any worthwhile content is produced. Even then there is only a very minimal chance of any content interesting enough to draw people in numbers. Theres no magic bullet solution I'm afraid, and enthusiasm alone isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. Even if you get it right, you'll probably have to sit and wait months and months and months until you start to see things taking place - even then, its down to luck.


    *Figures produced by my ass
     
  20. Ollie

    Ollie Well-Known Member Member

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    Huh? What have I assumed. D:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2009
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