Sonic 2: Painto Edition [2.0 PROGRESS]

Discussion in 'Showroom Archive' started by Painto, Dec 7, 2014.

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  1. Painto

    Painto Arthurus Paintus Erinaceus Member

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    Cna you show me a screenshot of that area where you got stuck?

    EDIT: Actually is DEZ2, the bottom path. And yes, you need to spindash up that loop.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2015
  2. Onapa

    Onapa Newcomer Trialist

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    I just played your hack and loved it! But there were a few nitpicks I had.

    The first one is about an odd glitch on the Boss of Green Forest in which a blank rectangle covers up part of the boss blocks. [​IMG]

    The second one is in the first act of Hidden Palace Zone which a Rex (unsure of the enemy's name) walks into the wall. [​IMG]

    The third one is that in the second act of Hidden Palace Zone some parts of the chunks are left hanging there and look a bit odd. [​IMG]

    The fourth one is in Death Egg Act 2 there is a dick move with the spikes where you have to jump through the space between them which can be hard at times (the top one moves).

     [​IMG]

    The last one is in Death Egg act 2 with the background scrolling too fast.

    All in all it is a good hack with a few small nitpicks and pretty good level design and pallets, that do no strain the eyes. Excellent hack, by the way, and I hope you will continue to work on it with the inspiration you have.

    Edit: Added an image for the forth nitpick.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2015
  3. ProjectFM

    ProjectFM Optimistic and self-dependent Member

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    I just played up to Hidden Palace's boss and here are a few things that could be changed:

    • The levels seem a little too linear. This might not be a bad thing to some people but adding multiple paths is an important part of designing a Sonic level.
    • Tail's AI is odd and different from Sonic 2 and 3K's AI. Instead of Tails doing the same action as Sonic but delayed he does it right when Sonic does it. He also always tries to be right next to Sonic.  I've seen other hacks of Sonic 2 with Tails having similar AI and it makes me wonder why the AI changed. I think it might be Tail's beta AI but I'm not sure.
    • There are some dick moves. For example, when I go into the pipe before Hidden Palace's boss, Sonic rolls into an emerald and breaks it and then falls into an instant death pit.
    • The collision in the wooden tubes in Wood Zone should be fixed so that Sonic doesn't appear to be walking in the air.
    Other than these complaints, this is a great hack and I hope to see more from it soon,
     
  4. Painto

    Painto Arthurus Paintus Erinaceus Member

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    I didn't touched Tails' AI code at all. The only thing I changed in Tails' code was making him go to victory animation when on ground and as sidekick.

    I said in first post that I usck at multiple paths, The only zones where I even attempted to do them are SHZ2 and DEZ2.

    That emerald was meant to block you from falling to that pit, but I will change it.
     
  5. Clownacy

    Clownacy Retired Staff lolololo Member

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    All right! I've been looking forward to this for ages!

    ...Oh dear.

    I really didn't have a very good time with this. Here are some of the problems I ran into:

    Before we get to the levels, can we please be able to skip all the splashes at startup? It's a good thing I'm using an emulator that can fast-forward through all of them.

    Anyhow, onto Sunset Hill.

    Bottomless pits on the bottom route. Those things speak for themselves. People hate how GHZ had unintended ones in act 2, and I doubt we've collectively changed our minds when it comes to these ones. They're bad, cheap, a thing I'm amazed people continue to use, despite how much of an insult to the player they are. Punish us with spikes or something, not instant death!

    More on the layout, there's no flow in Sunset Hill, which, being based on EHZ, is incredibly glaring. Nothing but U-turns, flat ground, walls, bottomless pits, with the occasional set of gimmicky loops. Nothing but pace-breakers. I have to approach this level as if I'm playing Marble Zone, which, last I heard, isn't exactly everyone's favourite S1 zone.

    Less design choice, and more of a bug, why do I get stopped by the back of springs? The ones that are placed against a ledge you're supposed to walk off of, they're placed too high, causing the player to enter their pushing animation and stop moving.

    It's nice to see that the end-of-act bonuses have been restored. Too bad the window of time the player has to get them is as small as it was in S1. I always thought it would be nice to let the player go after those bonuses while the score's tallying up. To give them something to do.

    Onto Green Forest (that name sounds familiar...). I don't know what to make of this zone. I ran face-first into a few enemies in a couple of areas, which felt cheap, especially since it was the layout that was making me move so quick. That said, both acts just flew by: I don't recall there being any gimmicks or anything to slow me down, which I guess is a plus, considering the previous zone. I really don't have much to say about it, which may mean that I didn't see any glaring flaws, but at the same time, that also means that it didn't leave an impression.

    In Hidden Palace act 1, there are two extra life monitors right next to each other. That is very exploitable: the player could farm lives with that.

    Things are rather unchanged from the original zone, up until the elevator ride. The very boring elevator ride. 'Grab the rings' can only go so far. Sigh... back to using that fast-forward feature. A bit of the water slide is flowing backwards for some reason an- OH! It just pushed me back down! I gotta ride that elevator again? The elevator object seems to duplicate itself, by the way.

    Act 2's palette is really desaturated. We need lively colours here! Even Metropolis, a big ol' mechanical place, was brought to life with its greens and golds. This feels... bland. This act's monitors also are really plentiful and easy to reach. I ran into them while just trying to get through the level.

    I'm gonna ignore the already-mentioned bottomless pit problem with the wind tunnel before the boss, and get right to the boss itself: the boss is a novelty, and not practical in any form. All your rings, and the shield you may-or-may-not have mean nothing when it comes to this boss: one hit and you're probably dead anyway. It's bad enough that it showers projectiles, but bottomless pits? What if SLZ's boss had those?! Sure, HTZ's boss is comparable to this one, but that one had lava, not bottomless pits! And at least with SYZ's boss, the bottomless pit was the only threat! You'd have to be trying to get Eggman to stab you in that one. Can't say the same for this one's bullet-hell. You can't excuse this boss as you did with Bridge Zone by using authenticity as a way out. Frankly, Bridge Zone's layout is not friendly in the least, and, evidently, neither is its boss.

    Anyway, that thing combined with the ridiculous wind tunnel death gave me a Game Over, so I guess I'm stopping here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2015
  6. Pacca

    Pacca Having an online identity crisis since 2019 Member

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    Not to be a show off, but this is the first hack I've tested completely on my new sega nomad, so I'm afraid their will be no screenies to include with my nitpicks. Anyways, to the critique!

    ...Actually, never mind all that, it freezes on hardware AFTER THE SEGA SCREEN! Why?!?! It doesn't even fade to black, it just says sega and freezes!!!

    Anyway, on Kega fusion... :resent:

    General Issues/Comments

    I didn't think the splashes would be such an issue, until I found them to be unskipable. Try setting it up so that pressing start sends you straight to the title screen, it will save us a lot of pain!

    I love the new character select! Perhaps you can make the current null option in the options menu point to it when clicked!

    When I play as tails, flickies and other blue things turn orange; why not just use sonics pallete?

    THe continue screen gliched out and brought me back to the title screen. If your intent was to remove it, then just have the game go to the title, instead of a glitchy continue screen.

    Sunset Hill Zone

    Giant death pits in the first level are a big no no, especially in finivky platforming sections.

    This should not be the first level. believe it or not, I actually enjoy the layouts; I just don't think they're first level material. This should be moved to the fourth or fifth level in the game order.

    This spring doesn't reach the ledge:

    [​IMG]

    Switch it to be a red spring, and all should be fine. I'm annoyed to see a huge level issue that could have been fixed by playtesting, though.

    Green Forest

    Yay! A wood zone edit!

    I died within the first 10 second of act 1 because the conveyor belt which makes me want to go fast pushed me into a death pit. You have to think ahead on these things.

    There is a lot of leftover glitchy collision, and I mean A LOT! It keeps confusing and killing me!!!

    I honestly believe this should be the first level, it fits the natural setting cliche and is far smoother to play through then SHZ.

    Are the palletes different? I'm kinda searching for things worth pointing out, there isn't much to talk about. Maybe you can add a new gimmick or 2?

    Hidden Palace

    YOu lied! You said you would do away with all the "over hyped" hidden palace zone layouts and palletes, but act 1 is virtually unchanged, apart from a slight shading tweak and necessary level layout fixes! Not that I think its bad, just don't outright lie like that! It's rude! :wild:

    I could have lived with the sluggish elevator ride if it didn't dump me next to a waterway which pushed me all the way back down! I'm starting to see why some of these level concepts might have been scrapped... (and yes, I know the main reason why it was actually scrapped, that there was no time to finish it, and the weird glitches with Y-loops and water.)

    I hate HPZs "final" theme, its weird and doesn't fit the theme at all! I'd prefer the themes for act 1 and act 2 be switched here...

    I'm a huge fan of act 2s layout!

    There is a huge blind jump before the boss! Even after multiple tries! It's scary to jump through, and can get me dickishly killed. Try lowering this platform by about a chunk, so I can reach the boss effectively and easily, while being able to see the death pits.

    This boss starts out too fast, and a panic mode is unnecessary, the boss is painful enough as is! Remove the panic mode and it will be good, IMO. Also,whatever happend to bosses dieing in 8 hits? Bring that back!

    Special Stage

    I usually suck at these, so feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt...

    The first special stage is too hard. I know I stink at these, but I could at least get through the first one in S2 easily, it's supposed to draw the player in, not kick them out and make them avoid the stages thereafter.

    Only one stage is edited, and even then, it's only half way finsihed! At least wrap up the first on or two stages!

    The dikish boss burned through my lives, so That's all i can say. Actually, if you want, I could probably help you out, I'm pretty good at making multi pathed levels, and a lot of small issues I've seen are things I've fixed in my own hack!
     
  7. presto

    presto Raised from the dead... Member

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    Man, I thought we did a pretty good job play-testing this. It's ironic how I found some glitches and bugs after the release. Because we (others and me) had to test if everything is OK, I feel that we are a bit to blame too.

    It may be happening only on the Sega Nomad. According to someone on Skype, the Nomad misses 2 important things to be considered "real hardware".

    He said he's gonna leave Act 1 as the beta, I'm not sure where, but I know that he said that.

    Other than that, here a little playthrough I did:



    Note:

    - At Sky Fortress Act 2, I had to "Game Over" and use Level Select to get to Death Egg.

    - For some reason my Emulator Freaked out in Green Forest Zone (Because I accidentally unplugged my headphones).

    - I pretty much suck at this hack. (Even as a play-tester lol.)
     
  8. Roxurface

    Roxurface Well-Known Member Member

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    Unlike the other guys, I don't suck at Sonic games so I got through it no problem. :haha:

    Being a dick aside, I can see why there have been complaints. I think the main thing is that much of the game is missing and the difficulty spike is jarring because of it.  I agree with Pacguy in that the HPZ Boss needs to not have a pinch mode, or enter pinch mode after 4 or 6 hits and die in 8.  I would have beat the boss first try if I hadn't instinctively bounced back onto the platform after the 8th hit.

    remove the HPZ elevator. Just. . . remove it.  This isn't Sonic Delta.

    Emerald Hill's layout isn't bad per say, it just doesn't have the flow of Green Hill, Emerald Hill, and Angel Island.  I was randomly stopped in my tracks multiple times when I'm in GOTTA GO FEST mode from booting up the game.

    Wood Zone needs some variation.  Make some custom chunks instead of using the same ones over and over.  The entire level was go up ramp, go through L-shaped tree, go up another ramp, run into an asshole enemy, run on some conveyor belts sometimes, and run across those strange 4 floating platforms.  I like the boss port.

    I liked how Act 1 and 2 had different palettes and I very much enjoyed all the palettes, but I found it weird that the ship in Sky Chase was a different color than the one in Wing Fortress.

    I can tell you put quite a bit of time into the layouts of Death Egg.  I liked GOIN FEST in Act 1 but found there to be little challenge in it.  Act 2 was fantastic, even though the layout was a bit dickish.

    One thing I think would be good is ASM edits for the bosses.  Up the difficulty of Silver Sonic and Egg Emperor since they're seperated and you get rings.

    I can't wait to see this finished as I'm sure it will be an utterly enjoyable experience!

    . . . I act like I'm hot shit for beating this, but I couldn't even get past Bridge Zone in your last hack. . .
     
  9. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden Sonic CD's Sound Test Member

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    I was looking forward to this first release like others and am a little let down. There's a number of small issues that, while on their own aren't that important, add up to make things disappointing. As per my usual method, I'll be going through some of the things I liked and disliked and providing you with some feedback as per your current release:

    • I agree with StephenUK regarding the splash screens. There are too many and not being able to skip them all is quite annoying.
    • I really like the character select screen. The artwork used is imported quite well, although some of the outlines are a bit out of place. Same with the shadows.
    • The name of the first Zone doesn't make much sense to me. Sunset Hill Zone? There's no sunset and the purple colours for Act 1 appear to give it more of a morning feel to it.
    • There are many issues with the layout that rub me the wrong way. Bridge posts put at edges with no bridge, broken loops used as intended set pieces, floating objects above ground (monitors, springs, bridges), springs that are placed to send you backwards for no reason other than to annoy you, over use of death pits (in the first act of zone 1, no less) and a lot of objects placed to stop any attempt at maintaining speed (such as breakable rocks).
    • Sunset Hill Zone Act 2's palette is even less like a sunset. Darker purples which give it more of an overcast day feel.
    • Act 2's layout seems to fit together a lot better for the most part but I was also blind-sided by a red spring into a masher, a blind jump into a death pit and being killed by the camera just before the boss area.
    • Adding in the bonus point markers from Sonic 1 is a nice touch. It's a shame you don't get much time to get them, though, as the end of act pose stops you.
    • Green Forest Zone (Wood Zone) suffers from the same problems as every other port/inclusion I've seen so far; a lack of chunks and variety. It's still limited to the bare-bones contents from Sonic 2 Beta and doesn't feel complete a lot of the time because of it.
    • There are way too many issues with collision and priority (high/low plane) for me to play this zone without feeling as if it's incomplete. As I know it is (and have already stated other issues in this regard), I do wonder why it was included.
    • Badniks re-appear all over the place, making me reluctant to slow down or backtrack. This resulted in me running to my death a few times.
    • The inclusion of Spring Yard Zone's boss is very nicely done. There's an issue with the blocks flickering, though.
    • Defeating the boss with an invincibility present results in the stars becoming garbled with Sonic 1 point marker graphics.
    • Hidden Palace Zone Act 1's layout being almost the same as the beta was a bit of a disappointment.
    • The platform lift ride is boring. I hate to be blunt but even though I used the fast-forward function on the emulator, it's still a bore.
    • I was then thrown back down by the waterslide and had to ride it again. That was even more boring.
    • While the palette of Act 2 may be a bit desaturated, I don't think it's too bad given the artwork so not bad.
    • There are way too many bonuses in Act 2. It feels a lot easier than Act 1, which is odd.
    • There's a lot of wrongly connected chunks in Act 2. Hidden Palace is a difficult level to work with due to small changes on chunks that look the same. I'd recommend going back and seeing how they fit together for some of the obvious areas.
    • I found an already broken monitor in Act 2.
    • The tube area before the boss is frustrating in that you can die by something beyond your control. Sometimes you get flung out of the pipe and bounce off of the emerald block that I presume is supposed to block your path. You then die in the death pit for the boss area.
    • The blind jump down to the boss area is a dick move and I don't like it at all.
    • The boss itself is very nicely created and works very well. The shots are a little too close, though.
    • The arena in which you fit this boss, however, is completely unfair. Most of the time, getting hit by a shot will result in you recoiling into one of the pits on either side.
    • As if that wan't bad enough, the boss also has a pinch mode that makes it almost impossible to hit him. I lost so many lives to this boss due to recoil damage, unfair tube exiting or not being quick enough during the pinch mode.
    • The high jump after the boss is a little unfair and caught me off guard the first time.
    • Sky Chase and Wing Fortress seemed unchanged.
    • Death Egg Zone's palette (especially the red) doesn't work very well and looks out of place.
    • Death Egg Zone had an opposite feel to what I was expecting. A lot of running and loops with tons of goodies and rings to be found. Doesn't feel like a last level at all.
    • The low gravity gimmick in Act 2 is a very nice idea.
    • Again, the act is too easy. There's a few dick moves but overall, easier than the first level which is odd.

    And with that, my playthrough of the first release is done. I apologise if I sound a bit rude and/or pretentious but I'd like this to become something special. It's more than capable, it just needs some work.

    Also, my apologies for leaving such a long comment. I did, however, think it necessary given the release.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2015
  10. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester ♡ ! Member

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    Well isn't that nice:

    [​IMG]

    DAGarden pretty much said all the negative aspect (now I don't need to bother d=<). A simple, yet fun hack, some of the palettes were nice too.
     
  11. warr1or2

    warr1or2 I AM CLG Member

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    Agreed, but Knuckles only.  Was able to get through that upward slope just fine by gliding into it several times, if you plan on porting Tails' flying, then maybe for him too. Was able to get to HPZ boss, glide for 4 hits each, I managed 9 total & game over. Nice on Painto,
     
  12. Painto

    Painto Arthurus Paintus Erinaceus Member

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    [​IMG]

    Does it feel more like sunset?
     
  13. warr1or2

    warr1or2 I AM CLG Member

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    not bad of a palette edit.

    also...

    Agreed, but Knuckles only.  Was able to get through that upward slope just fine by gliding into it several times, if you plan on porting Tails' flying, then maybe for him too.






    the reason why I said it.
     
  14. Guest

    Im Sorry And this is solely my own opinion but this idea doesn't really make sense at all to me. I mean who would want to constantly try on having to keep using the glide move over and over again just to get to one place, not to mention that if done at the wrong timing you would just keep falling right back down to the bottom. Also even If he did port the tails flying code over for tails, there is still the problem of him losing his breath after a certain amount of time, unless he edits the timing that is. quiete honestly Im fine with the elevator gimmick as it is and saying to remove it just because of one hack that did something similar to this is a bit dumb to me.

    Now moving on about the hack itself, just did a full playthrough of this about 2 days ago and I will say that I have not found anything too bad about this, Though I will agree that there are a bit to many death pits in SHZ [sunsetHill]. That and you may want to move or replace the emerald rock on the second act of HPZ thats right before the boss as Iv'e actually died from bouncing on it after coming out of the tube too fast. For the most part, this is the first simple sonic 2 hack In awhile that I enjoyed playing and will be looking foward for more later on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2015
  15. Spanner

    Spanner The Tool Member

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    You see, THIS is what I want to see more.

    First of all, people who keep on going on about "too many Sonic 1 hacks". Well, there you go. Look at this? Notice the "2" in "Sonic 2"? Yeah!

    Secondly, where did you see the custom art levels? It was all straight from Sonic 2 here, changing things around.

    Good programming too. I didn't have to go through YET ANOTHER broken Hidden Palace Zone? And Death Egg wasn't just the CPZ level layouts intact, it had some changes! My only issues were that the level design could be a little tricky in some aspects, I was stuck in one place in DEZ2 and had to go back to a save state of Silver Sonic. Where's the speed boosters when you need them?
     
  16. Painto

    Painto Arthurus Paintus Erinaceus Member

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    Which place it was? I want to know so I can fix this and/or make it easier/cleaner
     
  17. csikocska

    csikocska Newcomer Trialist

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    I really enjoy your new hack, Painto.

    I like the new level layouts, although I found a little bug in the special stage when I move to the sideways with Knuckles.

    [​IMG]

    You should fix this for the next released version.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2015
  18. Painto

    Painto Arthurus Paintus Erinaceus Member

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    Did you know that The Main Zone is named "The Main Zone" because is the main zone of the game?



    C&C welcome.
     
  19. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden Sonic CD's Sound Test Member

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    Well, you ported that pretty quickly. Looks functional and the like, so good job. I'm not a big fan of the abbreviations used for zones (GHZ, WZ, etc.) as although it works, it doesn't look very good from a stylised point of view. You could always have some text show up for something when you're in the right area. Just throwing that idea out there.
     
  20. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun Visible Member

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