Back to Business

Discussion in 'Site News' started by LazloPsylus, Jan 31, 2017.

  1. LazloPsylus

    LazloPsylus A Certain Scientific Railgun The Railgun

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    Location:
    Academy City
    Alright, people. After a couple of weeks of time off, SSRG is now back open for business. HOWEVER, that does not mean that things are back to the way they were. Two major changes to note immediately. First, the rules have been completely rewritten from scratch. You can thank us later when policies start being more sensibly upheld. Read them, and follow them. Second, Pro Users and some other groups are gone. The entire Pro User list has been nuked, pending a complete re-think of the group. It failed in its original purpose and morphed into something far different than intended, and it was damn well past time to put it out of its misery and start fresh. We'll figure out what to do with the content in the Basement later. There's other things in the works and under discussion as well as currently active, but those two are the most visually noticeable.

    With this all out of the way, I'm going to make something very clear: The Staff does not want to ever have to resort to closing down the site to get your attention ever again. To that end, we're upping behavioral expectations substantially, as part of our rules revamp. You constantly act like a massive syphilitic prick to people, and you'll get punted to orbit. It's long past time this place steps up and builds a community that people can actually respect, rather than the near-feudal arrangement we've been operating with previously.
     
  2. rika_chou

    rika_chou Adopt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    585
    Thanks for reopening the forums. I was worried they weren't coming back. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  3. LordXernom

    LordXernom Well-Known Member Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    746
    Glad to see this place back again. It's good alternative for Sonic Retro site and there's a lot of helpful data and it's easier to navigate here.
     
  4. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester ! % # @ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,751
    Excellent, fantastic work guys!

    I am a little upset about my lack of a resident jester token, but, I think it's better this way. Hopefully, a new leaf can be turned, I myself promise to be less arrogant and dickish towards newcomers at the very least, and I hope others will follow.

    In the meantime, I shall take a look at the new rules you have in place~

    EDIT: it might be worth changing "By registering, you agree to..." to "By using these forums, you agree to..." though, as I certainly didn't agree to these terms when I originally registered in 2009 dX
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
    Pacca, FATA-, HackGame and 4 others like this.
  5. Calvin

    Calvin DreamCast Enthusiast with a GameCube Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2014
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    $C800
    The no-OC rule on the old rule-list has disappeared.

    I would like to publicly (and politely) ask if I may use my GameBanana profile picture, and whether or not this lack of reappearance is a simple oversight on the copiers' behalf.

    That said, I'm glad to see this 'place' back up and running so soon.
    Need I mention seemingly efficient?
     
  6. LazloPsylus

    LazloPsylus A Certain Scientific Railgun The Railgun

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    Location:
    Academy City
    It's not gone, but modified a bit...
    "- Don't make a username based off a character from the Sonic franchise or fanfictions regarding it."

    OCs tend to fall within the fanfic category, but it's a grey area, honestly. If it's not obnoxious as crap, go for it. Just don't go carte blanche with the leniency and make us have to tighten it up.

    Also, I altered the "By registering..." text accordingly. This thing's going to be treated as an organic, developing document, and will hopefully develop alongside the community.
     
  7. StephenUK

    StephenUK Working on a Quackshot disassembly Administrator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    974
    I was hoping to offer my stance on the situation the past couple of weeks, but after a very stressful time over the last few weeks involving work, I don't feel I'm in the right place mentally to put together anything meaningful just yet. Hopefully all the staff will use this topic to offer an insight into their views, so that the members can at least get some background on the events that have taken place and what has been discussed. I'll try to get something posted in the next few days once I've had chance to get my head straight.
     
  8. Blazer

    Blazer Lurker Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Earth...
    Like some have said already, glad to see that the site is back up. was getting a bit worried that something bad might have happened. with the new rules being addressed, I'll have a look through it myself.
     
  9. Ayla

    Ayla Sonic Hacking Contest Founder & Co-Organiser Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Messages:
    257
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I agree with StephenUK. I'd love to get my opinion out there as it tends to differ fairly often from what other staff feels. That's fine. Varying personalities and views are needed to keep a balanced structure and guarantee that no one "approach" or "system" winds up hurting the community as a whole. In other words, by having a diverse staff, you're all guaranteed a well run, fun community to be a part of. Here's my take on everything having discussed what I have with other staff and with various other members of this community.

    I don't feel that this website needed to be taken down. I don't feel that it was or ever is an appropriate response to a problem in the community. What happened was a small group of members. Most of you had no part in this. I feel the sweeping generalisations in Lazlo's second paragraph come across a bit on the aggressive side to those of you that weren't involved in the incident that resulted in the temporary termination of the SSRG, but I'm fairly certain (please correct me if I'm wrong. Not trying to put words in your mouth!) that this was not intended.

    Despite my personal feelings on the temporary removal of the SSRG, it served its purpose. For those people that needed to cool off, they had the time do so. The staff was able to take a step back and look at what we've been doing, what needs to be done, and what to do in the future. Again, this is something that I feel should have been done on our own watch as staff and not at the expense of everyone else.

    I don't feel that taking down the site was "the only way to get through to you people" as some of the staff have said. All staff (as well as members!!) are to be respected at all times. That's simple common courtesy. I think it would have gotten the point across equally as effectively if we had instigated verbal warnings followed by temporary bans for repeat offenses for those people that were disrespecting another person -- member or staff.

    All of this has already been said to the other staff in Discord and we've discussed it in length, but I wanted the general members to know how I felt and what I've observed during this time. There's so much more that i want to say, but I can't stay awake any longer as my methadone is destroying me and I I keep nodding off in place. It will have to wait until tomorrow.

    ~Julia

    TL;DR -- I'm sorry if it sounded like we were being harsh from lazlo's post. I don't think he meant it like that -- I believe he's just trying to say that, for the people that have been pushing the envelope, we're done and and it's not going to happen like that anymore. I don't believe taking down the site was the right decision, but it ultimately had some very positive results behind the scenes. I'd say more right now, but I took too many drugs and I'm high as a fucking kite. If you think my post is out of line, it's probably because I'm blitzed on opiates. No it was not intentional and yes they're prescribed.

    So yeah. I'll post more later. Spread the PLUR, kids!! *passes out at keyboard"
     
  10. Selbi

    Selbi Plug in, baby. Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,398
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    That I definitely can second. I have never talked this much about alcohol before.
     
    Dandaman955, Novedicus and Natsumi like this.
  11. Baraksha

    Baraksha Well-Known Member Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Messages:
    99
    It's good to see that everyone finaly calmed down a bit the forums are back up, altho I honestly spend most of my time on Discord I still like roaming around here all see at all the stuff people post here. And it would have been a shame to let this place go to waste. Also like it was already said. This is the best alternative to Retro.
    I hope that the new rules will help not to resort to this situation again any time soon
     
    HackGame likes this.
  12. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic Also known as RHS Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,967
    Location:
    England
    When Ordos brought up the "I remember hacking from the good ol' days" statement, it really hit me. A lot of people in this day and age have become so arrogant and full of themselves; people with a superiority complex.


    I've seen newbies enter the forum and ask simple questions, and then they get roasted for not knowing the basics. Come on, we were all learners once! Some members do help out in a nice way, and then there's the majority who say "look it up, it's basic stuff for fucks sake!" (especially members who self-taught themselves come across this way). Changing a headlight bulb on your car is easy stuff but I bet a lot of you don't know how to do it. Then I guarantee half of you looked it up, saw intimidating instructions, then thought "screw this!" and asked someone for help.

    Yeah, it can get annoying when a new arrival comes in and asks a question we've all answered a trillion times, but that's the point in a forum. If it's been answered, point them to the topic with the answer with a nice greeting, instead of either "There's already a topic over here, dipshit!" or "I'm not going to tell you as the answer is soooooo simple!" There's absolutely nothing wrong with, "This question has been answered before over in this topic :)" or a similar response. As for us staff, we may gently remind them of the rules. It's only time to get rough with the newbie if they constantly do not get the message.

    Also, when members show off their hard work and it looks...... terrible. A lot of people jump onto the bandwagon and point out how ghastly it is, rather then offer pointers. And when members on the occasion do offer pointers, it's delivered in a nasty or abrupt way. Remember this? What would you say about this hack if I released this today? In all honesty? When I did release it back in 2004-05, I got told the palettes needed tweaking as they were not the best at all, some layouts needs cleaning, and some art needs fixing. Not once was the word "shit" was used. But they still gave me good marks like the layouts themselves are great, and walk-through monitor idea is awesome, and the difficulty is balanced. These words is what gave me the motivation to continue and got me where I am today. I can promise that if the forums didn't close for 2 weeks and I released this a month ago, I would get absolutely slaughtered and I probably would have given up there and then and wouldn't be here right now (don't cheer lol). I've seen this happen to a few particular members in SHC16 (or just before the contest started) who I will not name, but every time that subject comes up, I get annoyed.

    It's not just on the forums though; it's on Discord, IRC, heck, even on my YouTube channel! I remember during my SHC16 live streams (when I re-watched them) and a new person entered the live chat and asked "what game is this?". Instead of answering, I saw a few say stuff like "Nobody tell him! Let him figure it out". Seriously, I know you may have to repeat yourself at times but you come across as an ass. Just say, "the game is 'Sonic Whatever' and the name changes in the scrolling text" and if you're fed up of repeating yourself, then say nothing.


    TL;DR - The point I'm trying to make is a lot of people these days, in and out of the forums, in and out of the community, fuck it, in general life, think that being high and mighty, being more knowledgeable and showing off (cocky) is what is known to be honourable. Well it isn't! Knowledge helps, but being nice and not acting like an ass is what makes you honourable. I've always been a nice guy (sometimes too nice), but that, and proving that I can learn (which I got a lot of help btw), is what made me become a respected member, staff status and the privilege to use my fan-character as a profile and a username.

    P.S. This post is not aimed at anyone in particular. It's a message for everyone. Hopefully, this 2 week closure won't be for nothing :)


    EDIT: Sorry for going on, but I'll give you a perfect example of people thinking their at a high rank. Portal 2; has anyone ever made their own puzzles? Well years back, I started to learn to make my own puzzles using the Hammer program and I read a lot of tutorials. I was going slow but surely. But I wanted certain rooms to play certain music when the doors activate.

    I read so many tutorials but I just couldn't follow them. So I asked for help in a Portal 2 forum. Someone said to follow a tutorial (seemed nice at first). But I replied saying I already followed this and couldn't grasp the instructions. He then went on to say if I couldn't figure this basic instruction, then there's no hope and I should give up. I went back and read the guidance again and tried adding music files myself but it either failed to play or crashed. I went and asked for some more help, showing my workings. I got told that I should just go and use the basic puzzle maker because Hammer is well out of my learning curve and I'm terrible at it. From that point, I just gave up. If it's really as simple as he made it out to be, then why not just answer the question or at least point out where I went wrong in my workings?

    It's people like that who annoy me. At least he never swore or anything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
    kenny0989, ProjectFM, A-S-H and 16 others like this.
  13. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak Incineroooaaarr! Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    O'Fallon, MO
    Glad to see SSRG is back in business I thought it was gone for good. Anyways I look forward to the changes and hopefully things will change for the better around here now.
     
  14. Natsumi

    Natsumi Phoenix egg Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    692
    Location:
    Long and dangerous river
    @redhotsonic I do get your point and agree to some point, but I can't help but to feel you are sort of ignoring the other side of the spectrum. People are different and respond to things differently. Some people need encouraging words, some people need to have their ego smashed. The reason why I stayed around and what has got me the motivation to get to the position I am in is... Harsh words from a few 'assholes'. What I needed, was for my ego to be shattered for good, to see past it, and to improve. I needed that motivation of "I want to show these dicks" to continue. Nice and encouraging words could have probably just led me to believe more on my high and mighty delusions.

    That's kind of the issue, because the way to deal with noobs has been very much in the side of shattering their ego, while you seem to be on the side of positive encouragement and nicely pointing out the flaws. Neither will work for all cases in the end. There will always be those people who are too amazing to listen to few idiots with their complaints... I have realized during this thing, that I am way too personally biased about this, and I shouldn't really fully trust my own judgement of what would help myself, to help someone else.
     
    ProjectFM, mrcat-pixel, Pacca and 4 others like this.
  15. Ashuro

    Ashuro Well-Known Member Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    514
    Location:
    France
    I agree @redhotsonic. (sorry for my english...)
    When I was registered here, I was the guy with a huge and bad ego, because i was fierce of my work with Ashuro (lol -_-).
    I was the guy who easily fell into provocation and until the contest, i had a lot of problems with a lot of members, because of criticisms and demotivation words. Up to a point where I became paranoid, I really felt like I was going to be decimated at the slightest thing I was going to do or say. I felt hated by everything and everyone. And I'm one of the guys who wanted to leave the community after the contest. (After this contest, I was absent for more than a month, I was going to see what was going on here but that's all).

    Because of these stories, peoples who are bad because they believe they help in this way, i just want to tell them:

    You do not help, you destroy peoples.
    In my first step here, i admired Selbi, Natsumi, Super Egg, Clownacy, StephenUK, and a lot of members who are like gods of hacking for me (lol), but now I almost avoid them, I hate them.
    (Ok I admit, I was not always easy either :p , at the time, I was the lazy monster who asked for codes anywhere and even wanted to pay someone with paypal, shame on me).

    Now, these peoples makes me understand that I will not ask anybody for help here anymore (only to some good friends). They help me when I'm stuck or they give me ideas and motivations and it is because of them that I want to continue my work on Sonic & Ashuro (and because i somehow won a Blaze Trophy despite the critics and issues about my hack lol!).

    Anyway, past is past. I hope everyone will bury the war hammer and realize that we are all brothers who share the same passion, a wonderful passion that allows us to express ourselves through our favorite hero: Sonic the hedgehog. Rom hacking allowed me to find a professional vocation and a purpose in my little sad life.

    Happy New Year and I hope you all will continue to be there as long as possible, my friends or ennemies, and good luck!
    (I just reread myself, but I think it's good, you can understand my english, sorry. :) )
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  16. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic Also known as RHS Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,967
    Location:
    England
    That's where I mention the "if they continually do not get the message" statement but maybe I didn't make that clear in my post. If positive and constructive criticism doesn't work the first few times, then yes, being a hard-nut may get the point across. I was meant to say being an "asshole" immediately isn't the best way.
     
    Pacca, Jdpense, HackGame and 2 others like this.
  17. Pacca

    Pacca Why succeed when you can profit off of failure? Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,148
    Location:
    Triton (Moon)
    I decided to check in a couple of days ago, since I've been slipping into other hobbies recently, and was horrified to see SSRG taken down in such an extravagant fashion; I'm very happy to see that wasn't the end of things. Given that, I have absolutely no idea what happened specifically; anyone want to point out what went wrong during that time? I checked the Trash sub-forum, but I didn't see anything that seems like it would warrant a site shutdown. A link or two will do just fine. I don't mean to be nosy or anything, but I like to learn from these types of things, particularly in regard to criticism.
     
  18. LazloPsylus

    LazloPsylus A Certain Scientific Railgun The Railgun

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    Location:
    Academy City
    There's a lot of individual components involved in the why, but an oversimplified answer would be that the very long fuse finally detonated a powderkeg of emotions that the community has been sitting on for a long time. Sometimes, it takes a damn big flare to get the attention of the crowd on a whole. There's serious problems plaguing the roots of this community, and these issues led to the shutdown and some of the changes you're seeing on the site. The changes are not over, and in fact another one was made earlier in the form of the closing of the Forum Games section. There's a lot of bad attitudes and perceptions running deep in the status quo of this place, and the shutdown was an impetus for a change in direction and approach to a lot of things both internally and in public.

    I know for a fact that there's not an agreement that what was done was objectively right. There's plenty of things to point to, and there's plenty to blame, but bickering and blame games aren't going to make a damn bit of difference to what happened. While I'll leave individual thoughts on the matter to my fellow staff members, I do want to pose one question to the crowd, if nothing else than to satiate some curiosity: What would you do when faced with a situation where a large majority of the staff (including basically everyone responsible for keeping the place running day-to-day) is ready to resign and walk rather than continue with how things are?

    We're not perfect, we make mistakes, and there's a lot that went into what happened. What I will say definitively is that this is a time for change, and it's up to the community to embrace it and make this place something to be proud of, rather than an embarrassment. Don't take this place for granted, and don't take the people that make it up now, in the past, and in the future for granted, because this place is ultimately a labor of love and care for a hobby. This is a hobby. Don't lose sight of that.
     
  19. Spanner

    Spanner The Tool Administrator

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,342
    PRO USER THREAD CREATORS

    If you want your thread to be moved out of there for public consumption, contact a member of staff. Otherwise, it'll stay in that forum that can't be accessed any more.
     
  20. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester ! % # @ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,751
    That might be difficult if we cannot see nor remember what it was we posted in there.