SONIC THE HEDGEHOG EVOLUTION

Discussion in 'Showroom Archive' started by Raionhardt, Jun 3, 2016.

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  1. Raionhardt

    Raionhardt Vanguard Member

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    [​IMG]
    Now that the Hedgehog Development Kit err, development is done, finally I can post my project,Sonic Evolution. Since I have documented organizatelly all info about the game, I will provide links here to each thing of the game that normally goes in a post:

    All the game info on the game site, which is: http://www.chaosforc.../sonicevolution
    Game Development Log: www.facebook.com/chaosforcestudio


    Also I made a guide explaining the game mechanics and moveset of both characters, and the reason behind these choices, that are very focused in classic gameplay and level design applied in 2.5d and 3d:http://chaosforcestu...cf2192cec0605d2

    Trailer - With BR portuguese comments:

    And the first teaser:


    And that's that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  2. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester ♡ ! Member

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    Interesting game so far, love the logo design by the way.

    One thing that I'm certain will be on everyone's mind however, is; physics accuracy, i.e. Are you going for a certain accuracy standard here, and if so, any particular?
     
  3. Raionhardt

    Raionhardt Vanguard Member

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    Yes, there is a gain and loss of speed on slopes, as well as a higher jump when jumping while having speed on a slope and jumping back when jumping on a slope, just like in classics. The only point that is a note is the difference in the 2 characters. Shadow don't lose speed while going up on slopes because of his shoes, but gain speed going down, but he is a little slower and can't get as fast as Sonic and because of that he can't get as high using the same gameplay, but using his skills.
     
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  4. Raionhardt

    Raionhardt Vanguard Member

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    Here is a video I recorded showing Shadow skills and some development and gameplay:

     
  5. ProjectFM

    ProjectFM Optimistic and self-dependent Member

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    Cool! It seems very accurate to the original games. The graphics remind me of Sonic '06. I like how fluid his jumping/rolling animation is.
     
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  6. Raionhardt

    Raionhardt Vanguard Member

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    Thanks @ProjectFM . Probably next week I going to record the video with Sonic. I think that will be the real test of gameplay comparing to the originals, since I will show slope physics and his classic moveset Insta Shield/Spin Dash along Bounce/Quick Step/Jump Dash. Even have some parts of the second level ready that are cliffs full of all kinds of slopes.
     
  7. Animemaster

    Animemaster Lets get to work! Member

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    The animations look really smooth! I actually thought it was cool just watching shadow skating at top speed. I like the little effects to make it look like he's going really fast, like wind behind him. Are you going for an 06 feel? I kinda get that feeling.
     
  8. AURORA☆FIELDS

    AURORA☆FIELDS so uh yes Member

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    The animations look completely unnatural, as if Shadow was gliding forwards rather than walking/running. Also it looks like he is just teleported next to an object with homing attack rather than actually dashing towards it.
     
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  9. redhotsonic

    redhotsonic Also known as RHS Member

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    When he's running/skating, I think he looks pretty much fine, but when walking, I agree with Natsumi. Definitely needs some work, but it's looking good. I'm enjoying your work so far.
     
  10. EMK-20218

    EMK-20218 The Fuss Maker Exiled

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    (going directly to the topic)
    Sonic doesn't have such smooth walking/running animation. And his body kinda tremble when he does both of the things. And he is faster.
    Take this Sonic Generations trailer as a example of how you could make yours better.
     
  11. Raionhardt

    Raionhardt Vanguard Member

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    @Animemaster Thanks! Actually I am just trying to make it look good, but in that regard, I have been not using any game as reference.

    @Natsumi ,@redhotsonic , you guys are probably talking about the top speed animation. Yeah, that was a poor choice for it. There is still some animations that need to be made from scratch, rather than used the original, to fit the project. As can be seen, I ripped the animations and then they were reasigned to the modified character meshes. I know Shadow top speed and the gliding animation will need to be custom at least. I'll see if I modify the standard run animation (Shadow only have 2, Sonic have some 5 for running) for something like the way Shadow was animated in Sonic Adventure 2, were he moved feets to the side, having more dynamic and looking he was really skating. If I get that animation file from SA2, I could even try to retarget it to Shadow inside Unreal.

    @Eduardo Knuckles would I like to make an animation like that, but animations are not my strong point in 3d. I plan to take some time in the future to learn in pratice character animation, but for now I only can edit existing or animate objects. I had some other ideas of dynamics on the characters animations too, but until I get to learn that field, the ripped originals will have to do.
     
  12. Raionhardt

    Raionhardt Vanguard Member

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    A video showing a stress test with palms with separated leaves - 36k triangles on a background terrain of the first level. They have Level of Detail and blend into billboards on the background, that can fill an entire landscape. I discovered that grass actually eats more fps because of overdraw - when several alpha objects went parallel on each other - than the palms. Also adjusted to find the best lighing configuration to the foliage.

     
  13. Raionhardt

    Raionhardt Vanguard Member

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    I have some new images of renders of the robots I remade/designed for the game and are already in engine having AI being made:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    I post stuff more constantly on my FB, in case someone wants to follow development more closelly, on www.facebook.com/chaosforcestudio
     
  14. Raionhardt

    Raionhardt Vanguard Member

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    Now we have a trailer! It does have BR portuguese comments on the second half, but I believe there is already english subtitles on it. And I should say, the levels featured are all WIP.

     
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  15. Soldaten

    Soldaten The Coilgun Root Admin

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    So... Mach Speed Sections: The Game™
    Nothing really interesting was shown. Level design appears to be linear as all hell, and the rest was empty space.
    Yes, this is a WIP but maybe give an update when there's actually something to show aside from "look at all these visuals because unreal engine 4".
    (Also what English subtitles because there clearly aren't any).
     
  16. Raionhardt

    Raionhardt Vanguard Member

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    Wow, what a harsh critic, LOL. Is that really necessary? Saying there is nothing there? It was not meant to show the entire game, just show a little after 2 years working hard on it, no matter how much you consider it to be not worthy. Maybe I was just fooling around and in truth being just another of those kids importing models into Unreal.

    That is an introductory level (just like Apotos act 1). The other levels were featured the very beggining of the levels. It was not mean to throw a full game in the face of everyone. And if you think I shouldn't bother showing the game now, patience, you could've just ignored the post. Also, the space level go branch itself into 2 to 4 branches as go to the end (it is a Special Stage), and the bridge level, although being a boss race, does have secret passages and multiple paths, they are not just as clear to see as a 2d classic layout flatten on screen. Other levels branches even more and there is the plus of exploration.

    Also, I am not depending on the visuals of the engine. But it seems today it is the norm to bash anyone using UE4 because "they have graphics done all over".

    Also sorry if I can't see if there are subtitles in other languages and that I 'believed' there was because it was to be put on the video anyway.
     
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  17. Misinko

    Misinko Oh SHIT it's the Biolizard! Member

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    Oh dear lord, this quickly killed all of my expectations quite quickly.

    Alright, let's start with your level designs, as they're the most jarring to me. They're far too open, and confusion. I cannot tell what's going on during each and every of the loop sections you showed off. And the openness itself is far too confusing as well. A totally free environment leads to a lack of direction, and a sense of where to go is essential in platformers. I get the appeal of openness in a 3D sonic game, because it lends itself well to taking advantage of Sonic's physics, but there needs to be structure to it's openness. You can't just plop Sonic in the middle of a world, and tell the player to "go nuts". 3D Sonic works the best when his levels are linear, but there's enough freedom to the level design that you can stray from the beaten path and take shortcuts to get to the end faster. Take a look at the level design for the At Dawn segment of Speed Highway. It's got it's fair share of issues (I love the segment, but even I think it's too open) but they're kept to a minimum. It does exactly what you're trying to do, yet it does it far better. There is not a single segment of the level that is not accessible to both Sonic and Knuckles, yet all routes lead to the town center in one way or another. There is no feeling of confusion, or being lost within the level, because it's clear where you're going.

    Then there's your artwork and models. I'm not a 3D artist, but I can tell you your models look cheep. There's nothing stylistically different between them and the average art student's work. They overall feel bland, and just aren't pleasant to look at. And your textures are awful. Colors range between muddy and dull, to overstated and bright. Nothing is pleasant to look at. And there's far too many moments where your level environments are generally too dark. You cannot see Shadow in that space level, because the entirety of the background masks Shadow's natural color. At times they look nice, but that's just because of UE4's natural shading. Most of the time, they look generic and uninteresting. There's nothing in the levels themselves that make me want to play the game.

    And finally, please, fix the camera. It's movement is unnatural and clunky. I can't get a good read on the game's physics because of it, which is annoying. Sonic's jump looks too floaty though, and he seems to turn too stiffly.

    Now, as for your other post:

    The purpose of a "trailer" is to show off the best aspects of a game. If all there is to the game is open levels with nothing in them, then there's no use plying. When you release something to the public, the public has the right to critique it.

    If you have nothing to show, why make a trailer? Again, you showed something off to the public, so the public has the right to critique it.

    Because they can be done better. Most people who use UE4 as a platform to make fangames don't bother touching on the graphics engine at all. As a result, each fangame blends together and it's hard to tell each of them apart. And as a result of that, the previous "norm" becomes the new "ugly", because we can only see the same lighting effects so many times before it becomes unappealing.
     
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  18. Raionhardt

    Raionhardt Vanguard Member

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    @Misinko I think it is too early to people get into conclusions, even more because of a trailer. I don't really understand why some people get so agitated about a fangame that is going differently from the common. You are seeing a large amount of work of one person in different areas and expect to things look professional? Give me a break. I coded a huge part of the framework - HDK - coded all extra stuff needed exclusivelly for the game, had to model several different assets like level structure, rocks, trees, landscape, besides do complex and annoying shaders, particles, post process and all that shit and just expect stuff will look like a pro from the beggining?

    Now, I am not dismissing your critique, saying it is invalid or you wrong or inconvenient, on the contrary, I do like when people go pointing things the way you did, because I can take notes of what I need to improve yet. But I am also criticizing the way people are ultra critic about 3d works sometimes, even more when it is on Unreal, trying to fit on a standard of badly done games with repeated noticeable patterns of graphics, thanks to some individuals on the internet who are doing a lot of this thing of importing characters and getting famous (that annoy me as well, I believe they are taking the spotlight of a few great remake projects I've been seeing).

    Now back to the points you pointed. Just before we start I want to say 4 important things about the way I design:
    1 - I don't do things using conventional or expected rules. I do sometimes, but I also like to twist and distort then, seeing what I can get. I try to be more vanguard like my title says, and play with stuff. I don't bother being wrong or making a big mistake later, I want to try;
    2 - I aproach things in a liberal way - I know about platform importance of keeping a path(s) to follow, and I do put enough reason to players to stick to the branched areas, but if the player want to jump on water out of the cliffs and do shit they way he/she wants, well, great, that is cool too. The Score Attack/ Time Attack/ Ring Attack/Trajectory attack are ways of playing and will be enough reason to the player follow the path, to get the best score, which will only be achieved going on the game paths. Also, the player will only find the Warp Rings to Special Stages trying to get inside small holes, aparently innocuous places and etc. Also elements of the background story are found this way;
    3 - I don't do this for being a Sonic Game, or even a Game in any way. The most important identity of the game is my idea of exploring the world at high speed, something I always wanted to do, but we can't by physical and financial limitations, so you can see why the realistic graphics and stuff. Also, there is a heavy focus on architecture on 2 levels, because is other thing I like;
    4 - It may not appear, but we added almost all classical physics resources, there are slope physics, hitstun, jump higher when running and jump on a diagonal surface, Xaklse gravity, underwater (havent finished config on the video for friction). The only we are trying to do now that is the last one is the maintain speed on falling on a half pipe and go higher.

    About Level Design:
    I think I said a little about level design, so it is sort of open, but you only will play in a fun way for one of the game modes if you follow the minimal rules implicit - like collecting rings and defeat enemies on the branched paths. It may not appear so much on the video, but all levels showcased have 3 paths at once in some part of the level. There are levels the map design is done with more than that. So it is not linear. Also, some paths that appeared on the recording (that was did 2 months ago), have obstacles, rings and enemies over it, so each path have it's stuff. Also, here is not the highest path that have most rewards. It can be any one, and sometimes is even possible to use skills to return and go to other paths, so the game doesn't follow this rule, it just leaves the player to play a hundred times until he/she finds the best possible way to get the record they are doing. And about direction, I believe the direction is implicit in the format of the level, although with many paths that goes on the same direction - but I do plan to break this rule on a certain level too. There is another level that is more cleary linear, with no exploration, but have other resources to work out.


    About Artwork:
    Again, I don't follow any set rule for doing my materials and stuff. And also I see your comment as just your personal opinion:

    Really, do you think the average person will bother that colors are this and that? People look and see someone that is not bound to a company, full of dfferent work doing something like that and they like. And really, I like the models and textures, my opnion is crazy maybe, but I like to keep looking at those renders of robots with exagerated saturated colors. I know and I remember I did this on purpose, and yes, I did that crazy yellow thing on purpose too, because I think it is cool. There is even a history of when of 4 years ago, I used to work on an university on the city I lived, and then I asked the chief of advertising/publishing section of the university about the style I did on an electric guitar, and he told me: "you don't need to keep the rules always, it it is your personal work, you're not bound to anyone, just do the way you like and think it is cool, and probably other people will like too", so after that I started testing a lot of stuff, so yeah, I know that yellow material seems horrible to some people, but there was also people that told me: "my, it even gives me pitty of breaking it on game because it is cool". I know I don't work hard enough on then, even because I don't have too much time to be extremelly detailed, since workload for the project is too big, and that is why sometimes I luckilly have help of some awesome people that colaborate with me. Also, these maps end looking differently in game, and that is what matters, I can tweak later in the material. I do have a friend that checks a colors of stuff for me and have being helping set things better.

    About Art on levels:
    Again, the dark space level on Shadow was done like that on purpose. Why? Because it is the sixth special stage and for the fifth and sixth special stage I decided to play with the player senses to make the level hard. That is why the level structure is made of cristal and you have to be careful, although it is not that hard, I made the level because the transparent materials can be set to unlit, which would help distort the perception of space and distance. I didn't done that because "oh, I got this cool looking, so I will leave like that". That was really done on purpose. Other tricks I use for mess with the person playing is a lot of objects moving in a lot of directions, distorted materials (like that glass flooring, I made the refraction very high, so the player would have a visual clue, and that is noticeable on the video), and extreme big environments like open space.

    About the camera:
    I was using the mouse camera. I use that for test a lot because my batteries for the x360 controller run out of use and I dont mind using the keyboard/mouse setting. Not saying the controller camera is a big deal, although we already have a camera that follows controller movement left and right automatically and can be set to follow rotation for loops and slopes.

    About Trailer:
    Do companies make trailers for full games ready to be released? They don't? They do it too while on beta state? Oh, alright, they do. What do stops me from doing it? I started divulgating my work when I started working on Hedgehog Development Kit, on the earlier days. Before that I used SGDK. What is the matter of showing the work? I need the game to be advertised earlier so people get to known, share more, make hype and give support. Nothing breaking any law here.

    About Critique:
    as I said, no problem with critique. I do take then seriously and use to gauge how different people react to elements of the game, so that, if possible, I may change later.

    About UE4
    UE4 use physically based materials and a baked lighting system. If you know how tweak the simple values for PBR shaders, you will get photorealistic materials always, although light conditions may mess quality. I try my best to do this. But there is one problem. The light when you use static can only be rendered after finished the level, so I don't have a reason for doing it now. When the time to render comes, I can make the lighting better with it. So, if work on unreal may look the same, it is because people are doing using the main workflow. You can always opt-out by making custom shaders to use on post process and then change everything on the game. But for now, as long as Epic Games don't update their work, make a dyinamic light system, do a foward rendering like they had, accept other light models, yes, the work of people will look like a little alike. Final Fantasy VII looks different, but they use a dynamic global illumination plugin that is only for games with budget of 1 million, else, I would have been taking my money and investing on it.

    finally it ended. lol
     
  19. LordXernom

    LordXernom Well-Known Member Member

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    Why gameplay in this trailer is reminding me of early crappy Blitz Sonic fan games? (Levels are too empty, too much focus on Sonic speed for me etc.)

    I'm very sorry if I'm sounding harsh, but this fan game.... I expected levels full of details, exploration etc. and I get... this? I hope it will be changed... :confused:
     
  20. TheStoneBanana

    TheStoneBanana banana Member

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    Yes, your opinion is crazy! I'm glad you figured it out without people needing to explain it to you!
     
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