Robotnik Returns 2 Demo

As some of you may know, I've been working on a Sonic 2 hack for some time now. Well here it is (well, about a 16th of it, anyway). This is a demo containing Merry Meadow Zone, as well as the Special Stages (I believe it is possible to go super in this demo, but it will take some serious effort). Anyways, to the screenshots/descriptions:
 
MERRY MEADOW ZONE
 

 
The traditional Emerald Hill Zone ripoff which has become mandatory in most S2 hacks. Despite this, I found several creative ways to make it more interesting. It has a couple secret areas and vines which you can grab and hang from. As it's the first level, it is fast passed and rather intuitive to traverse.
 
SPECIAL STAGES
 

 
This is a system I'm rather proud of. Entering the Starposts' special stage ring sends you to Hidden Palace Zone. It actually is somewhat similar to the one in S3K, where you have to touch the Giant Emeralds to reach the special stage. The big difference though, is that you actually have to find them; they're cleverly hidden throughout the level. Once you touch one, it will transport you to the special stage, a separate "zone" with seven seperate layouts (inspired by the stages from "The S factor" and "Sonic 2 Recreation"). The layouts themselves are a little incomplete though (the last 5 merely grant you the emerald instantly), as I'm not quite sure what else I should add to them yet.

And that's pretty much all for now! Enjoy :3

DOWNLOAD

EDIT: Shit, I forgot the credits, I put this out too quickly...

• Selbi for his parallax generator and guides
• MarkeyJester for miscellaneous ASM help
• MainMemory for other miscellaneous ASM help particularly with implementing Flamewings debugger.
• Clownacy for the S2 clone driver
• RedHotSonic for his bugfix guides

EDIT2: Thank you all for the awesome feedback! The next version really will be enjoyable, all thanks to you :3

 

That's freaking awesome! Nice special stages btw. I going to play this now!

 

This is great and a lot better than the glitchy version you released a while ago. I'm glad you reworked it. The level design is pretty good although there are times when I see some parts not done properly. The boss is cool and a nice challenge (it took me three tries to beat it). The special stages, while a pain in the ass to access in Sonic 2, are really cool even though I failed the only time I got to try it because I didn't notice the time limit. I liked the vines which unfortunately weren't used much. Keep up the good work!

 

The layout of the zone is really bothering me: for a level described as "fast passed", it's so blocky. There are just drops and walls and the occasional pit I have to climb out of if I want to take the higher path.

That's ignoring the technical issues, like the palette errors (Knuckles' life... word is cycling, and the animated flowers are just incorrect), and how you're using the stock S2 art for the shield and invincibility stars, along with their monitor art, meaning their colour schemes consist of horribly clashing red and green. KiS2 just makes them grey.

Also, the ported S3D music is using incorrect PSG envelopes and DACs, and the speedup tempo is way lower than the actual tempo. How'd you mess up that badly with my driver? You might as well have just used S2's. On a related note, is credit a thing of the past, or what?

 

How do you he used your driver? A new version of a Sonic 3K/3D to Sonic 1/2 convertor just came out. How do you know he didn't use that?

 

At first, there seems to be nothing wrong with the hack, but then the more I played around with it, I began to notice some broken things. While there's a sizeable list of things wrong, I'll just point out the two immediate ones I found.


Once you travel a bit right in the level, try going left. You'll notice the background starting to break. I don't know if it can break more than what I was able to accomplish here, but this is how severe it got for me.


Getting a GAME OVER within the special stage (which is a concept in itself I don't understand) and restarting from the beginning got me this.

Not much else I can add other than this hack is in dire need of bug testing.

 

Besides the help thread on using my driver (really appreciate the ' :fuckyou: '...)? Well, there's always the disassembly option.

 

I'm glad you like it! I'd appreciate it if you showed me a screenshot or two regarding the level design flaws you saw.

Sorry if the layout bothers you, I tend to prefer blockier layouts, I'll look into smoothing it out when I can.

I'll get right on those technical issues when I can. I guess I could just port more KiS2 art, although the flowers will be an issue, as they conflict with the background.

I just put the songs through Flamewings SMPS convertor and implemented them. I swear, I did fix the Speed Shoes tempo at some point (maybe I accidentally undid it at some point). as for the PSG and DACs, I never attempted to implement them; I personally thought they sounded great without them, so I didn't see the point.

As for crediting, I forgot that when I posted, and remembered immediately after I wasn't able to use the browser for about an hour; I added it the moment I came back online.

I think I know how to fix both issues rather easily, thanks for pointing them out.

 

Come on, I'm not Tweaker...

Anyway, why not just use the S3D music from flamewing's SMPS2ASM pack?

 

Right so I downloaded this hack earlier and played it a tad bit. I was kind of upset that I lost a life in the special stage, I think instead of losing a life you should exit the SS if you fall into a death pit like how Sonic Chaos does it. The player shouldn't be punished by losing a life if they messed up in the special stage IMO. :V That's my main nitpick with this hack... Also the various issues that people have already brought up. It's a promising hack, it just needs a few tweaks here and there.

 

I was originally against trying to release an update for a demo, but seeing as there were so many issues, I decided to fix most, if not all of them (why demo something that isn't good, after all )

• Fixed some odd background layout issues
• Fixed an issue with the Special Stage flag loading improper layouts for in game levels
• Replaced the music with samples from flamewing's SMPS2ASM pack (thanks, Clownacy! I love it :3)
• Made some platforming segments more intuitive and added more curves to preserve level flow
• "Dieing" in the special stages, as well as Hidden Palace, sends you back to the main game (I also removed a dickish spike gate in Special Stage 2 to make up for it)
• Monitors and Shield/invincibility art ripped from KiS2
• Speed Shoes Tempo for Act 2 has been fixed (again >_<)
• And probably another thing or two I forgot

The download on the main article has been updated, feel free to check it out if your curious. Note that the Flowers still aren't fixed, I've never been good at redoing art. Hopefully I'll find someone to give this hack more custom art, as mine can only get so far.

 

The cloud's movement in the background is definitely way too fast. However, I see you used my tool, so I'm to blame for that. It's impractical nowadays, since I made it work with bit shifts. As a result, the speeds are all roughly powers of two, which makes the biggest numbers way too fast or too slow.

I might upgrade my tool some day.

 

OK, so when I saw this post I was pretty excited for it, to be honest, since a long time ago I got a ROM of your very early Sonic 2 hack.

Well, I thought it was okay. Don't get me wrong, the concept is really good (I love the idea of the special stages, but I know it's been used before.), but the way you implemented it wasn't that good. EDIT: Nevermind that last part.

Good:

• The background is gorgeous. (Not accounting cloud movement.)
• Special stages are nice. (I like the idea of normal-level like special stages, as they don't seem out-of-place. )
• The art edits are nice too.

Bad:

• Knuckles can't glide-break monitors from above. (You know what I mean.)
• Starpost placement is dickish:
  They're either too close or too far.
  
  
  Spoiler

  
  
• This.
  
  
  Spoiler

  

Also, I've made a blind playthrough of the demo:

 

I've given this a playthrough and would like to throw my thoughts into the pool, as it were:

Likes:

• Playing as Knuckles instead of Sonic.
• Background looks nice.
• Custom Special Stages.

Dislikes:

• Way too many splash screens.
• The music issues mentioned by Clownacy.
• Why am I forced to play with Tails as sidekick? Is this intentional, or can I can turn him off?
• The first autodemo shows Merry Meadow 1 with it's default 2 Player demo. Not only is this broken, but the background is also broken in 2 Player mode.
• There are a lot of chunks that are misplaced or cut off.
• The background scrolling speed is way too fast.
• The level layouts still use sections from the original Emerald Hill layouts and it's blatantly obvious in places.
• Your use of bridges in certain areas doesn't look right and need to be looked into carefully.
• The level layout has a lot of stop and start due to chunk placement and general layout flow. I can't seem to keep speed for long enough to enjoy it, but at the same time, if I try to explore the level, I seem to either get stuck, or find myself unable to progress. This is incredibly frustrating.
• Hidden Palace uses the same stock layout, which is a little weird considering what the stage is used for.
• The Special Stage's background is an eyesore. It's too bright and repetitive.
• There's some lag (slowdown) in Merry Meadow 1, where there are way too many objects in the same area.
• The background scrolling breaks a little when you return from a special stage.
• The upper path in Act 1 feels empty and too linear.
• The vines (that use WFZ's handle object, I presume) don't look very natural and seem out of place.
• 1up noise being replaced with the signpost sound effect is quite distracting.
• Having a speed-up monitor in Hidden Palace is not only strange, but unless you've fixed it's behaviour with water, it can cause serious issues.
• What on earth is that green block structure in the water in Hidden Palace? It looks so out of place.
• There's a very large pit in Act 2 with spikes that disappear as there are too many objects in the same place.
• There's a waterfall just after this, that, if you climb up using the walls, you are greeted with an empty area with no chunks.
• The boss being sped up isn't bad, but what on earth is that grey thing supposed to be? It seems to be more of an object test and doesn't suit the boss at all.

I'm repeating myself but it's important to make sure that it's said (again), and that you take note of it:

A layout is, in my opinion, one of the most important things to consider for a level. It should not be rushed, it should not be thrown together quickly and it should also not be disregarded as something that you don't have to put much thought into. The reason I say this? The layouts here feel rushed and have many issues. Wrong chunks in places, questionable object placement, cut-off, collision issues (due to object use and chunk placement) and they also don't play to the strengths of the main character: Knuckles. You can glide and climb as 2 extra abilities, so maybe you should make the levels rewarding for the player as a response to using them.

 

Not a bad hack from what I played but it definitely needs work. This is from just playing the available demo.

Good:

* Playing Knuckles instead of Sonic was a breath of fresh air.

* The background looks nice

* Glad see custom Special Stages, they generally get ignored so once again this was a breath of fresh air.

* I noticed some branching paths in the level design. The higher up paths are challenging too, just as they should be. Nice!

* Seeing the Act 2 boss of Emerald Hill but on steroids was interesting to say the least.

Bad:

* Got some major Emerald Hill vibes from some of the level design in places.

* The background is nice but it should not be scrolling so fast.

* Is it me or does it feel like the level design feels more suited to Sonic than Knuckles? There's no point to climbing or gliding as him in my opinion.

* While I did like the boss what was that thing shooting at me? What was it and why is it there?

* The music's kind of bleh. It feels like the tracks that were picked loop too much.

* I'm surprised at how few star posts I came across. It's ridiculous.

It seems you're trying to fix things so good luck. I hope the next demo will be wonderful!

 

I, and hopefully a lot of others, look forward to that update. For now, I'll just lower the cloud speeds the next lower power of 2, to make it feel more natural.

• Spoiler

  [*]This.
  
  

I'm not sure what you mean by the checkpoint placement being dickish, but the waterfall collision issue and knuckles gliding on monitors problem have been fixed, and will appear in the next release.

I'll go through your constructive criticism one by one, just 'cause it's easier.

• The SGD splash screen will not appear in the next release now.
• Hopefully, this is mostly, if not completely fixed
• Tails being there is very intentional. If it bugs you that much, the cheat code "FF70:0001" will force the game to load only knuckles. The player select is removed solely because this is a demo, and it will return in a later release.
• The auto demos were not intentionally supposed to be there; if you wait long enough, it will display unused levels.
• I would appreciate screen shots of these broken chunks; I've spent the majority of my time fixing these, so if any have slipped through, it's because I can't see them when I play through.
• I'm on this one; the clouds should be quite a bit slower in the next release
• I can't find these leftover emerald hill zone layouts; again, I'd love some screen shots, or at least a hint of where they are (for example, "around the beginning of the upper path in act 2" would be very helpful)
• Again, where specifically? They all look okay to me (except for a particularly buggy one near the end of act 2, if that's what you mean, that particular bridge is removed).
• Again, where do you get stuck? I've added a few knuckles based secrets here and there, and I've never been stuck in this level before, despite having playtested it over the course of several months.
• I happen to prefer Hidden Palace Zones stock layout, but I'll keep that in mind for a future release.
• The Special Stages artwork is still very open to improvement; I'll see what I can do about that.
• Again, where is the slow down? The only reason these issues are here is because I can't find them!
• I'm on it.
• That's the type of layout based criticism I'm looking for! I'll get right on that
• My artwork skills are not very good, but I'll see if I can make it fit better; perhaps something from Angel Island Zone could make it fit in more...
• I prefer the sound effect being replaced; it doesn't cut out the music like the old one.
• The speed up monitor was purposefully placed to make finding the last few emeralds less boring. I also have already fixed the water issues.
• It doesn't really look out of place to me...
• I'll fix this right away.
• This is also being fixed; thank you for telling me where to look!
• That grey object is a showcase of my sub par artwork; it was very intentionally placed to prevent the player from very easily beating the boss by standing on the spot and jumping, which rendered the speed boost absolutely pointless.

As for the paragraph at the end, I'm sorry you feel this way. I've been working on this level alone for quite some time, Emerald Hill Zone just happens to be a very difficult level to work with, particularly in terms of it's collision (which abuses path swapping far more then any level ever should). I've already weeded out an enormous amount of layout based bugs through playtesting on my own, but clearly, this wasn't enough. I have placed a handful of knuckles based secrets, but I'll definitely work on adding more. thanks for taking the time :3

 

So, I've numbered a few of the issues I noted (along with your responses) and have taken some screenshots to further illustrate my points.

I've spoilered the quotes and the images, to save space and size:

Spoiler

Point 1:

Image 1 - Almost everything about the way this floor area is put together is wrong. There are better chunks that can do it.

Image 2 - I shouldn't be able to do this. This chunk should also be a solid, left-facing wall.

Image 3 - A combination of the the wrong ceiling chunk and incorrectly placed path swapper allow this to happen.

Image 4 - This floor section doesn't work the properly. The ceiling chunks are wrong, with incorrect collision.

Spoiler

Point 2:

Image 1 - The first obvious section that is the same as stock Emerald Hill Zone 1. It includes the right wall, the platform above and the red spring.

Image 2 - Everything from this section to your right is the same as Emerald Hill Zone 1, objects withstanding.

Image 3 - The start of Act 2 has not been changed.

Image 4 - The end of Act 1 is exactly the same as the original. There's a star post just before the sign post, which I don't understand either

Spoiler

Point 3:

You already pointed out the main bridge I found, I think.

Image 1 - This one?

Image 2 - Your placement of bridge objects and bridge posts should be snapped to the the layout, on a grid of 8x8 pixels. Most bridges you have placed don't, causing some weirdness when you walk onto/off of them. It also looks odd in general, like this one.

Spoiler

Point 4:

Image 1 - Top path of Act 2. I don't know what's going on here, but the wall is not solid and I can get stuck here.

Image 2 - Issue with a path swapper. I can't go back through the level this way.

Spoiler

Point 5:

Image - Right of this area, in Act 1 (top path). I've experienced slowdown (lag) a few times when I've made my way to this upper path after taking the lower path first.

Spoiler

Point 6:

Image - I'm sorry, but this does not look right, in my opinion. So much more can be done with the art and tiles available.

Spoiler

I hope this clears up any confusion with my response. I'd be more than happy to clarify anything further, if required.

 

Apart from the problems this hack has that people have pointed out before me. i have to say this is a really awesome hack I hope you carry on working on this hack.
 
Also: 

Spoiler

I recorded my 3rd time playing the hack however i didn't come across many issues on my 3rd time playing it 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcBqBRVpHJM