Sonic 2 Retro Remix

Discussion in 'Showroom Archive' started by Thorn, May 9, 2016.

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  1. Thorn

    Thorn wroar Member

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    I don't think I've ever made a topic for this on SSRG, even though the game's come up a few times. Welp, may as well do it now!

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Explore a non-linear world through zones both familiar and new. Search high and low for emeralds, unlocking new zones as you find more. Follow your trusty radar and use new abilities—wall kick, midair trick actions, jump dash, and homing attack—to get around or to reach places that spin dashes and jumps simply can't access. Search high and low for secrets, show off your Sonic speed in time attack missions, or go for high scores with a Sonic Adventure 2-esque scoring system, all to collect the emeralds you need.


    The game does have SRAM support and will autosave/load in most emulators, although savestates can be used to resume a play session more quickly. Steam users must own Sonic 2 and must use the save/load feature built into SEGA Genesis & Mega Drive Classics, as Sonic 2 mods do not have SRAM support.

    If you like what you play, please give the game an upvote and subscription on Steam even if you played the game on an emulator, as this pushes the game upward in the popularity rankings, in turn exposing more people to what you like—and it makes me feel good too! Everybody wins!
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2016
  2. Selbi

    Selbi The Euphonic Mess Member

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    I recommend that, until Sega fixes their dumb emulator, you instead set the game to be a hack of Sonic 3 & Knuckles on Steam. That'll allow SRAM to work properly.
     
  3. Thorn

    Thorn wroar Member

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    ^ I've already tried that. The game crashes upon loading the first level if I call it an S3&K mod, which is why I had to put in so much time reconfiguring everything before I uploaded the game. It stinks in that it cost the game a week of exposure and thus it's getting out to way less people, but it also compelled me to fix and update a lot of other little things. I didn't fix every bug from previous versions—a lot of cosmetic bugs are still in the game—but I'm overall satisfied with the update I did. Honestly, the save/load feature works just fine with the newest version, and now all players can use savestates to quickly restart (or cheat) the game.
     
  4. Razor

    Razor Active Member Member

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    Is there any changelog? The new version looks different than previous one.
     
  5. Thorn

    Thorn wroar Member

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    ^ I gave a summary of changes in the change notes on Steam, but if you need something more specific:
    • SRAM is now copied into RAM for savestate and Steam save/load compatibility.
    • Large additional routes have been added to Mystic Woods 1 and Metropolis.
    • Level design has been slightly edited in Cascade Valley 1, Cascade Valley 2, Cascade Valley 3, Chemical Plant 2, Frosty Peak 2, Frosty Peak 3, and Casino Night 1.
    • A boss has been added to Mystic Woods 2.
    • Emeralds have been repositioned in Mystic Woods 1, Mystic Woods 2, Cascade Valley 1, Cascade Valley 2, and Metropolis.
    • Some emerald monitors in Mystic Woods 1, Cascade Valley 1, Cascade Valley 2, and Cascade Valley 3 have been repositioned.
    • The two boss-only secret acts from previous releases have been turned into full-length secret acts. A third secret act was added.
    • One of the two Cascade Valley overworld emeralds was removed to keep the number of emeralds consistent after adding a secret act.
    • Tails and Knuckles are now playable in acts in which all six emeralds have been collected. This serves as a small reward for players and has no effect on progression.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
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  6. Razor

    Razor Active Member Member

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    Thanks for the list. Sonic 2 Retro Remix is my favourite hack. I'm glad to hear there are some new acts and playable characters. Will play it all over again on the everdrive. :)

    I also want to ask. Is there any way to disable an extended camera from Sonic CD?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2016
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  7. Thorn

    Thorn wroar Member

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    ^ I'm sorry, but it's not a toggleable option. I understand that some people dislike it, even if I don't quite agree with why they feel that way, but I feel that the ability to see a bit farther in front of you resolves the most common complaint about the core design philosophy behind 2D Sonic games. To that extent, any future work I do around the game will be based around the increased visibility.
     
  8. Razor

    Razor Active Member Member

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    The problem with the extended camera is in its tendency to confuse the player with its movement when he or she tries to do some precise platforming.
     
  9. Thorn

    Thorn wroar Member

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    ^ That's part of why I don't quite agree. If you're doing precise platforming, you're likely moving slowly, and if you're moving slowly, you're not triggering the camera shift. On the flip side, if you need to make a long jump that requires speed, then logically you should want the camera shifted so that you can see where you're landing. I don't say this to say you're wrong by any means; you surely have experiences that line up with what you're saying. I'm just explaining my logic.

    If anybody else is reading this, I do value feedback on the hack! I've received 12 likes on the first post, but I'm all for hearing your words too! If I disagree with something you say, I'll respectfully explain my point of view as I just did for the extended camera discussion. I'm not perfect, so my point of view may be wrong and I value discussion about aspects of the game both good and bad.
     
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  10. Jareth247

    Jareth247 Well-Known Member Member

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    Sonic 2 Retro Remix is one of my favorite Sonic hacks, and is possibly my favorite Sonic 2 hack.
     
  11. ArcaniaCQ

    ArcaniaCQ They/Them Member

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    This is why I hate the extended camera from start because I feel that Sonic Games shouldn't have that many long jumps. Other then that I don't see a single use of the Extended Camera other then being a distraction. (Which is why I never got into this hack sadly.) I would love to have the extended camera off for personal reasons.

    Other then that I think the level design is rather good. I found no real problems there. Just one bug where I did get stuck in a loop in the 2nd stage aka Cascade Valley 2. What threw me off was the Emerald collectathon progress. Would love a Classic mode where you go level to level with no hub world aswell.

    Edit: Fixed some stuff.
     
  12. Thorn

    Thorn wroar Member

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    ^ Well, I've made my extended camera pitch—increased visibility and reaction time—but it's fair if that's just a distraction for you. I can't claim to be in the heads of every player. With regards to a classic mode, there was a classic mode in an old version of the hack, but I really can't see the game as viable for such a mode. The level design is already built around that exploration aspect, leaving a start-to-finish playthrough feeling somewhat dull without many obstacles in the way until late in the game. That's just my opinion, though, and not some absolute truth! Maybe people feel the level design is fine for more classic Sonic play and I'm nuts. Maybe I'm just paranoid that if I put classic mode it, nobody would play the adventure gameplay again. I know I briefly had that feeling in the past. :p
     
  13. ArcaniaCQ

    ArcaniaCQ They/Them Member

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    I think the level layout would work. It's not that boring to do. I am also one of those who tries to do not go and explore so I may be in the wrong here. It's not like I hate to explore I just find it utterly optional.
     
  14. TheFieldWarrior

    TheFieldWarrior Green Villager is a treasure Member

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    I've been playing this hack since the SAGE 2010 release and since this topic is up I might as well give out my thoughts on the hack:

    I really enjoy the level design and I think the emerald collecting concept is cool, I know a lot of people aren't too fond of this system since it forces them to explore and they would prefer to explore at their own will, but other people really like the idea of emerald hunting since it creates something fresh for the regular Sonic formula

    I am in the middle of both of these views, I don't mind collecting emeralds but the issue is how I am meant to collect them in this hack, firstly those emerald monitors, I hate them, more specifically I hate the fact that there are 7 of them, I would've prefered if there were only 3. The reason I dislike the emerald monitors is because I am essentially finding 7 extra emeralds and I already have to find 3 in the level.

    If it were up to me (and it's not) I would've made the entire emerald hunting system more akin to the things players do in classic Sonic games, the time attack and score attack missions are already in so we've got that covered, instead of 3 emeralds to find there would be only 1 and the other 3 would be collected through basic tasks such as beating the level, collecting X amount of rings and destroying X amount of badniks. I know these sound lame in concept but it's something that's familiar with the fanbase while also keeping in line with the exploration mentality.

    The music was nice to listen to (Sonic Blast music FTW) and the art modifications for EHZ and HTZ were great to look at. Sonic's moveset is awesome too as it makes him feel a lot more fluid than he was in Regular Sonic 2, it also makes the emerald hunting a lot of fun especially for emeralds that require you to spin dash jump at the right time or wall jump to certain areas. Months ago I saw your Update video from 2014 and I noticed that many of the things you had shown in that video aren't in this release, any particular reason why?

    I haven't beaten this hack yet but from what I have played it's very solid, although I have to be in a certain mood to play the hack due to it's concept, I hope there will be updates to this hack in the future.
     
  15. Thorn

    Thorn wroar Member

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    ^ I hear what you're saying. I get quite a lot of flak for the emerald monitors in particular. I'm kind of banking on something opposite of what you said, though. You mention that you have to find 3 emeralds, but I feel like in any level, that's really up to you. The system you mention of "find one emerald, time attack, score attack in each act" is actually enough to beat the game if you only do all of that for every single act. You'll admittedly clear the final emerald requirement of 35 for Metropolis Zone by a very slim margin, getting only 36 emeralds if you adhere very strictly to that system, but you'll comfortably clear every requirement before it.

    With regards to getting an emerald just for beating a level, every boss act already has an emerald right after the boss, and the secret acts have emeralds right before the end. That's eight of the 35 required emeralds given out just for beating some levels. I don't think that "destroy X badniks" is familiar with the fanbase at all, though, unless we're counting Sonic 3D Blast. I can also tell you as somebody who ran a Sonic competition site that aiming for high ring counts is an absolute slog. :p I feel that Sonic 3 & Knuckles: The Challenges already tackles a lot of those suggestions and feels like a much different game for it. It's not what I want to make, although admittedly it may be what the fans want.

    The reason the video had things that you don't see in the hack is because I stopped working on the hack after making the video. I simply got bored of ROM hacking. There were too many in-progress features to release my current WIP to Steam, so I ported the features that I did finish back to the 2012 release of the game instead of releasing something unpolished.

    I hope I don't seem argumentative! I really do appreciate the compliments I've been given, and all of my text is just saying how I as the game designer view certain things. It doesn't make me right or wrong; video gaming is a subjective experience.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  16. TheFieldWarrior

    TheFieldWarrior Green Villager is a treasure Member

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    @Thorn: you didn't seem argumentative at all, in fact I am glad you shared your view on the whole thing, it's always great see things through another person's prescriptive because you get to understand the other side of the coin, well provided that they explain their case in a sensible manner. Thanks for the tip on how I could collect the emeralds, I have 26 already so I'll stick with that progression method, I think I had this mentality that I had to collect every emerald but I obviously didn't need to.

    I understand why you're halting development of this hack, i know how it feels to halt a project simply because you get bored of it, in my case I stopped working on a Sonic 1 hack in favor of Sonic 2 because I was getting bored of hacking Sonic 1 for so long. Not to mention Sonic 2 hacks like yours, Return of Shadow, Zeta Overdrive, Armageddon Game and Sonic 2Z inspired me to work on Sonic 2 (plus, it's my favorite game in the series which helps with motivation).

    Well I am glad to see that the hack is on the Mega Drive Classics hub and is gaining popularity (not that it didn't have any to begin with), you deserve the attention for creating this gem of a hack (or should I say emerald of a hack).
     
  17. Razor

    Razor Active Member Member

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    The problem is Sonic CD is way slower than Sonic 2 Retro Remix and requires more slow paced running in one direction. In this situation the extended camera works as you said. In Sonic 2 Retro Remix though you need to move faster and frequently change directions. With this kinda playstyle the camera will be hindering. Imagine running really fast to the right and you need to jumpdash to the left (I personally need this quite frequently). The camera will be shifted and you won't be able to see what's behind you. Plus the camera will start to move itself to the new position which will confuse player's sences. That's a problem with the current wersion of Sonic 2 Retro Remix.

     
  18. Thorn

    Thorn wroar Member

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    Ah, this is interesting information. As the layouts themselves don't zig-zag left and right, I'm curious about what has you doing this so often. This is where I get to learn how people actually play the game! My experience as a player of my own game is that I used to jump dash back where I came from if I was about to screw up and jump into something, but even before the extended camera days, wildly jump dashing backwards usually got me into the same trouble I was trying to avoid in the first place. It's something I've seen from numerous YouTube playthroughs as well. You, of course, have been playing the game for quite a while, so I doubt that's your situation. What has you jump dashing back to where you came from so frequently?

    EDIT: Okay, I didn't see the video when I first replied. Admittedly I found that easy to follow, but I'm also the developer, so I can't trust my own opinion here. It does show off what you're experiencing and is something for me to keep in mind.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  19. Razor

    Razor Active Member Member

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    In my case jumpdashing backwards is for 2 reasons. First is to avoid hazards. Second is to just change my direction without losing speed while exploring levels at higher speeds.
     
  20. MarkeyJester

    MarkeyJester ♡ ! Member

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    In my opinion, the extended camera is suitable for this game given the layout structure, had the layout structure been different or close to standard Sonic styled layout, it would be a problem. The jump-dash issue shouldn't be much of an issue since you're moving at a fast speed from the direction you are now jump-dashing to, it is a strong chance that nothing would be there as you would likely have hit into it previously, though, I could be wrong of course...

    ...maybe someone should demonstrate a few breaks in flow caused by the extended camera, in a video or something. At least then it might be something to work off... (That is... if there are any dX)

    I have no favour or disfavour for the extended camera though, I mean to say, I never experienced a problem with Sonic CD, likewise, I've not really experienced problems with standard Sonic games/hacks (when dick moves aren't in place of course).
     
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