Discussion in 'Discussion and Q&A Archive' started by Spanner, Nov 14, 2016.
I have no idea what happened there, fixed now.
Alright, we're already starting to read the evaluations, and we're getting a lot of really good info from them. Keep it rolling, people. I know some people were let down by the attitude of the contest, and honestly, we were too as judges. We need your help to figure out how to tackle next year better so that we can avoid the shitty parts of this year. I also want to come out and say that we're not out to bully anyone, and we want people to enter. That being said, we expect some common decency and care and effort put into entries to be exhibited in the entries. Why? Because we, as judges, are sacrificing many hours of our time organizing and running the contest and judging each and every entry as best we can, so when we're thrown hacks that we all look at and feel have no care or effort in them whatsoever, it really upsets us. The fact that we had enough to actually see a need to bring back the fucking Big trophy *and* had a sizable list of (dis)honorable mentions for it? That should get across the point of how outright disgusted we were with a number of entries. For a decent number of them, we've seen things they've put out in the past, and we know, without a doubt, that they can do much better than what they gave us, and that really cuts into us personally. Have some decent fucking respect for yourselves, people. When we have entries that make the judging staff physically unsettled while judging, there's a serious fucking problem, and we had *multiple* instances of that this year.
Look, I'm sorry we weren't positive snowflakes, but we're human and have feelings like the rest of you, and holy hell, did you make most all of us feel like mockeries that were wasting our time for people that couldn't give any less of a shit. All we want is some decent common courtesy and care put into everyone's work, because this is supposed to showcase people at their best. Is that really much to ask that people care about trying to make the event better?
And as for the unnamed person that called the judges bigots, I'm quite positive the word doesn't mean what you think it does. Perfect proof is that we're actually running these evaluations and going over the results as they're rolling in to discuss and plan changes. Take your dense fuckery and shove it somewhere else.
Just letting you know the results aren't on the actual website yet. http://shc.sonicresearch.org/sonic/results
I guess Cinossu (or whoever does it) is still working on these banners we know from last years.
Yeah, we'll get that up when we're done getting the images ready for the trophies. Until then, the results threads will have to do.
I think something should be put in the rules that discourages buggy or low-effort hacks or at least something that gives a reason why not every hack deserves to be in the contest. When about to submit my hack, I had a hard time thinking of a reason not to submit and believed that it would be fine submitting a hack full of blank/unchanged levels because people would admire the art and music and boy was I dead wrong. Even now, I'm not sure if it was a good idea to submit my hack.
The judges could also try rejecting entries that don't meet a certain standard so they don't have to take the effort to consider them when judging. Just some kind of filter would be nice.
That's the plan for next year.
I was thinking about the Big trophy's removal, and seriously, I think that the trophy's removal itself will already discourage the newbies to submit hacks to the contest, but I think that kind of a needed quota of knowledge (as said by ProjectFM) should do it more effectively.
We've had a great amount of feedback already from the Evaluation Form. Many responses are generally saying the same thing, which is good as it means that many have the same idea with where they want the direction of the Hacking Contest to go, but many have also submitted their own different responses which are very good.
If you haven't already evaluated the Contest, please do so when you have some free time. We will be closing the evaluation form at the end of Sunday 20th November and once we have implemented all the changes that we all want to make for the Contest, we hope to announce the 2017 Hacking Contest by December to give everyone plenty of notice - that being said if you have anything in mind you want to submit, you may as well start working on it now.
Yeah, we're announcing in fucking December. That's a head's up of ~10 months to get shit done until entry date comes around (with the assumption that the deadline will be around the same time as it was last time). Plenty of time to make something better than the half-assed crap that some people entered this past contest. I do *not* want a repeat of this year, and neither do a lot of people, so get your shit together, people.
I'm saying this so no one else comments on it:
Bad hacks will be rejected next year!!!
There will be no repeat of this year. I've already drawn up an outline of the rules for next year which everyone listened to and agree with. Although I won't go into detail about it (that's what the thread for SHC 2017 will be about), I will say that we will have specific requirements for a hack to be submitted. If we feel your hack doesn't meet them (or if we just feel it sucks), it will be removed. It will require a majority vote of hacking contest committee members to reject a hack to avoid any possible favouritism.
I'm already working on my contest entry (the first I've ever entered into my own contest) for next year. I hope everyone else is as well!! =)
So wait, does it mean that a next demo of my hack Pikachu the Mouse will be rejected next year simply because it's not good enough?
That's a bad thing IMO, because it's only thanks to the SHC, or the SHC Contest Week, to be more precise, where my hack could get the most of feedback and the most of attention (I'm also not the only one with that kind of thinking), and I really don't want that to be taken away, just because it doesn't meet the standards, even when I try hard to make my hack as good as possible.
So maybe the rule should be instead limited to hacks that are nothing more but palette swaps with no new additions or Sonic reskins with no new additions or Straight Line levels and nothing else. At least that way, the zero effort/low effort hacks get rejected, and no actual harm is done.
That's what a lot of the problem is though, people were only interested in getting attention for their hacks, whether that attention was positive or negative. If you want attention for your hack, post updates about it whenever you make significant changes, outline your plans for the future of it and show what is to be expected of it. People can provide feedback that way, and you will find it is a lot more constructive than what you'll get from the contest. You say no harm is done, but when the judges have to sort through mountains of shit from people who just want attention, then it becomes frustrating and stressful for them. All the tools and information is available to all members for them to be able to create something of reasonable quality, there is simply no excuse. We're not saying everyone can make something of a high professional quality, but a lot of the hacks in this contest could have been knocked up within a day, they were so poor and had so little effort. If you're genuinely trying to put effort and quality into your work, I'm sure you'll be fine. Excluding the ones who are blatantly taking the piss is what this new rule is all about.
Not to worry, Trinitronity!! If your hack isn't good enough for the contest, it WILL be good enough for the Contest Expo where everyone can showcase the hacks they've been working on. Mind you, all of this will be covered in the post for next year's contest that we'll make next month.
Also, I didn't state what the conditions would be to say it couldn't enter. Believe it or not, according to the rules that I've written up and that the other committee members agreed to, your hack would be acceptable.
But hey, maybe your suggestion on "the rule" is actually what you suggested? No one knows except the contest committee organisers because we haven't said yet! Either way, we are definitely keeping the "if the judges all agree that your hack is trash, it's out" rule.
Can Hack Expo entries be private?
The problem with that sentiment, though, is that the contest is also meant to show off the very best the scene has to offer. It's not something for people to just slap something together in a week, submit it to the contest, and get their five minutes of fame. This is something people plan for months on end, preparing the site, getting streamers together and on a schedule, getting the judges ready, looking through the entries and booting out any entries that aren't complete, ext. This isn't something that people put off 'till the last minute, or something they do just for the sake of doing it, this is something people put an enormous amount of effort into in order to make sure everything is going to go as intended.
As for feedback, the notion that it's the place where you're going to "get the most feedback" is an utterly false one. Look at each individual entry, and look at how many comments are on the entries and compare them to the amount of feedback given in their respective threads. Even Scorched Quest, which won the contest, only had a mere six comments on the entry, roughly the same amount of feedback that it got here. You can point to streamers for an additional source of feedback, but RHS plays nearly every hack that comes through here, and G showcases the ones he thinks are worth showing off. You get feedback from those two right there. Just because something is more public doesn't mean the public is going to give their thoughts on it. Besides, the contest shouldn't be a platform to get feedback. It should be a platform to showcase the fruits of the feedback you've received.
We still need to discuss it. Partial private will definitely be okay. I totally think that private entries should be okay as well. We used to even accept private entries in the contest, but they caused a huge issue because people didn't understand why they were winning trophies. The good news about the expo is the it's an EXPO and no one wins trophies if it's just in the expo. As such, private entries should be perfectly fine as there is no reason why people should be upset that they can't play it as long as they have screenshots or media.
I think it's okay, but I'll need to talk it over with the other committee members.
I meant "no download link" but okay.
Also, if its expo, whats the point of fully private hacks if they cant be shown?
Though the results are already up, the guys over at tails channel thought to post a results video there as well but in a more news friendly way.
After playing what i got to this year, honestly most of what was submitted was a bit... meh, but still there were some good ones of course and of what i played, I really enjoyed some of them, so congrats to those who won their trophies this year. hopefully next years set of submissions won' be as bad as this one but with what you guys [Judges] already said, should'nt be a problem.
I think you're misunderstanding. Private hacks can be shown. It just means they don't have a download link. It was exactly as you first thought =) It would be like seeing an upcoming game in a magazine, but not being able to play it yet.
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