The "Noob" Question?

This question do not go out towards anyone in any way, shape of form. However I want to ask this question for a long time since I first joined SSRG.

While being on for 1 year I know these threads can go out of hand but I am generally worried about this comunity.

Why is the people who are outstanding in hacking so mean to new users who have just started out sometimes?

Before you answer this please read through some of the threads I am about to link.

Ashuro The Badger

Sonic 4 Cybernetic Outbreak And this one to get the context: Reputation Discussion

Royameadow's Sonic Mega Collection Plus Texture Pack.

I can continue. But I think you get the point. I have myself also been like this.

This thread's purpose is for discussion. So please don't make it off topic.

 

The community, for as long as I've been here, has always been this way.

When users see posts from people like @SuperEgg or @OrdosAlpha that come off as harsh (for good reason, most of the time), they think it's the cool and popular thing to do to be mean, I suppose. That's just my guess!
There's also the fact that you can sometimes just have a bad day and come off as overly snappy or rude as well, without even really intending to be that way.

 

First of all this is in the wrong place really, but that aside it's simply a case of trying to push people to not accept mediocrity and push for greatness, or at least in my case it is. Whenever I see people putting out half arsed shit but with a little bit of quality hidden within it, it screams of laziness and it's the sort of thing I want to knock out of people. A lot of people who joined here over the years started with some terrible offerings, but after a couple of years of constructive criticism and some harsh truths, they've gone on to produce some truly fine pieces of work. People will settle for mediocrity if they get heaps of praise for it, but I prefer an honest approach, however harsh, in the hope it'll lead to a greater good.

 

People may be sharp at times, but which of the following would you rather we prefer to have?
* Support of mediocrity, fear of criticizing, and no motivation to grow and improve
* Not letting mediocrity pass, and push users to do more

I know which I'd rather see. Criticism is not a bad thing, and to be honest, a lot of these sharp-tongued people will also be among the first in line to praise the work when it's stepped up and shed its mediocrity. People complain because they expect better, and to be honest, with how far the community's come, the expectations are pretty well-grounded. What's good is praised, and what's bad is gnawed on until it's better or the dev decides to take the lazy way out and quit. Don't settle for mediocrity. You're all far better than that. Soar. A number of people want you to, and will be quite vocal when you're not.

 

Criticism is a great thing but when something steer out of controll so will shit hit the fan fast. I do have more examples of that. and back when I first joined I was actually kinda thinking that I would not become a member due to how bad my hacks was and how low my rep was. But then we discovered that the Rep system did not work and after some time we moved to Xenforo. Which was the best move in my honest opinion. That's kinda what I am more want to discuss. I agree with both StephenUK and LazloPsylus. But for those who are new members so would it rather be good for them to take a smooth way up to that way of criticism.

 

If something's shit, then it's shit, and I'll say it's shit. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I agree that there's an attitude problem here, but a lot of the posts in the threads you linked are genuinely civil - there's nothing wrong with pointing out when something is wrong, or calling out something which is blatantly awful.

 

Yes. That was more what I was out for mainly. But I took people who are known for shitting on the feedback they get. Sure I may have created this and that back when I started but I am starting to become better due to the feedback. however in my 2nd example I gave a great example of what I meant. The Reputation situation. That cannot be dismissed.

 

If you notice, it takes a decent amount of effort to find the amount of likes a user has, and there's no dislike. That was definitely not by accident. And the people that rail against feedback deserve all the hammering they get, just as much as those who are being dicks just to be dicks. You'd be surprised how some of the staff discussions go, and we're probably more loose than we should with standards to get in, but one of the terrible assumptions going around is that if you disagree with staff, you're screwed in getting approved or you're going to get banned. Really, short of being a shitcuck that breaks rules, we'll not do much. And yes, there's some that do jump off the deep end with their sharpness, and they do get chastised for it in private (you have no idea how many times I've yelled at SuperEgg, for instance...), so don't worry, we're just as much against runaway trains of shitspewing, even if we may be slow to react sometimes.

 

What I would love is to take this forum to be more civil about stuff and don't go through a shitstorm. Which in example some of the recent locked thread has had. For starters I think that this qoute is a great way to do it:

And this is a no no in my opinion from the same post:

I think that you should not compare 2 different stuff that don't even are close to be the same thing. For example... It's still opinionated but I would have made it more civil/formal. That could be more of an insult unless it was true. But I end my claim here.

 

Oh no, blunt feedback...?

 

What I mean is that you can phrase your criticism in a better way without insulting someone. That's the point I am giving.

 

I don't see how 'insulting' someone's work equals insulting the person. During a programming course I was in, we had a thing about 'ego-less code', where you wouldn't take negativity towards your work personally.

 

At that point the person who does that deserves it. I would name atleast 1 guy. But I refrain from doing so arm.

 

I know. And that's because we are all different.

 

Why are we talking about this again? http://sonicresearch.org/community/index.php?threads/poor-attitudes.4398/
I don't understand we already went over this. I mean its not 100 percent similar to that but its close enough, at least to me it is.

 

I was wondering how long it'd take to get back to that yesterday, but the fact is that despite being harsh, I wouldn't say the criticism was unjustified or even wrong. The author himself even later admitted that he felt the same about his own work, so in that respect I'd say there was nothing wrong there. That said, I have since had discussions with said person and I've arrived at the conclusion that the person in question has some ridiculous delusions of grandeur (to the point of calling himself and his game a success story due to Youtube feedback, despite everyone here feeling otherwise. Apparently we're jealous of this alleged "success"), and due to these delusions, the topic went the way it did. I've seen many people receive criticism in the same manner before, and they've taken it on board and actually came back with something worthwhile. Not so long ago, GenesisDoes was ripped to shreds for releasing a horrendously buggy and virtually unplayable version of his Socket the Hedgeduck hack, and has since gone away, worked on the criticism he received and has now produced something that is getting towards the quality it should be at.

To cut a long story short, offence isn't black and white. Offence is taken, not given, as everybody will take offence to different things and nobody here is going to change their approach on a person by person basis. Quite frankly, it just doesn't work like that, and nor should it. If people actually look at it in the sense of us trying to push them in the right direction instead of assuming the whole thing is a character assassination, there'll be a lot less shit flying around here.

 

Perfect example on how this harsh criticism is a good thing, great job remembering that, I totally forgot about it. Maybe in the future the people that have had this happen to them will see that too.

 

My my, I go for 2 days and what I find? Why of course, shit falls apart.

So CaveQuest. lets imagine you release a shit hack, right? I want to tell you, that this hack indeed is shit. I have 3 options;

• Not say anything.
• Try to nicely tell you it's not up to bar. Easily can get confused for compliments or the user thinks there are just small issues there.
• Tell it bluntly and/or show exactly what is wrong and why it matters. Easily seen as being mean or can be discarded as "hating"

Now tell me what is the best course of action here? Probably the latter two combined. I know a lot of people here and especially new people who will happily tell nicely. But to compliment that, we need people who are blunt and not very nice. Mind some do it more for comedy, but others try to mainly help the person. The biggest reason is not the "attitude" with people here, but with the people who come in and expect people to like it and not say anything bad about it. I don't give fuck all if someone's precious feelings are hurt or if I say something they do not like. Now yes, I may be really harsh and yes I may seem like a big asshole while giving them criticism. Welcome to real world fuckers. We adults in real life deal with people like this or worse. If you can't take a little bit of criticism in a forum, then how are you gonna fare in real life? You of course might bring up that internet isn't real life and so this is idiotic statement. But you'd make yourself look stupid, because it pretty much is real life minus the physical aspects. Though I do agree, people here sometimes do go off for no good reason, but that's bound to happen with so many people especially in the time where a lot of new people are joining and getting seated in. But more often, I see people be actually reasonable and not as 'mean' as they could be with their criticism. There has been a lot worse periods with this community and as far as now, things are way easier for the noobs to deal with.