Sonic 3 & Knuckles Hack by Il Shiki

Discussion in 'Showroom Archive' started by Il Shiki, Jan 4, 2016.

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  1. Il Shiki

    Il Shiki Newcomer In Limbo

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    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  2. Misinko

    Misinko Oh SHIT it's the Biolizard! Member

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    This was honestly the laziest hack I have ever played in my run in the hacking community.

    All you've done is changed a bit of each boss to make it ever so slightly harder. Be it removing a chunk, or adding spikes when not needed, the end result is still the same. A slightly more difficult experience. In practice, all one has to do is slightly modify their strategy from the original S3&K bossfights. And it really overall is not fun.

    You can't even legitimately progress beyond the first Eggman encounter, seeing as the chunk that connects the bridge to the level is gone.

    Overall, the hack just oozes with a lack of effort. I strongly recommend doing more than slightly editing the layouts for your next release.

    *Edit 1*: Edited for niceness n' shiz
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
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  3. ProjectFM

    ProjectFM Optimistic and self-dependent Member

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    If you're starting out, Sonic 3&K is the worst game to choose. The amount of level events severely limits anyone without much ASM knowledge. Start with 1 or 2, please.
     
  4. Devon

    Devon I think I'm paranoid Member

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    So, while playing this hack, I noticed that its prime focus was on the bosses, so I went ahead and looked at every boss in the game. I'm afraid that I agree with Misinko. This was lazily modified and looks rushed, and it's just not very fun.

    The majority of the bosses (not all of them, a couple unmodified) have had their layouts slightly modifed, whether it be that a pit or 2 were added or a couple objects were added. The edits made here obviously did not have much thought put into them, and it seemed like you were rushing it all just to get something released.

    What I find also rather lazy was how you handled the transitions between act 1 and act 2, and this applied for every zone. After act 1 is finished, Sonic is killed off and then relocated to the intended starting position. What this tells me is that you were too lazy to either relocate the bosses from their original locations, or to design the level in a way that leads to the boss in a nice fashion, so you put this method of transitioning in the hack. It's really poor and lazy design. The transitions should flow nicely, and you shouldn't have to kill off Sonic just to relocate him to the boss.

    As for the layout edits themselves, they either make the boss fights incredibly agrivating to beat, or they don't do jack shit. In some bosses, when bottomless pits were placed, it made the boss much harder than it was originally intended, unless you change your strategy slightly, like Misinko said. The reason that your edits don't work is simply because the bosses weren't designed to have pits in their environment. With some bosses, like Carnival Night Act 2, Hidden Palace Zone, and the last boss in Sky Sanctuary, the objects placed there didn't really affect the boss much at all, and were just useless. In addition, there are a couple boss areas that weren't even touched at all, which is rather lazy, considering that you barely put any work into modifying the other layouts. Hell, I'm not even sure if the FIRST BOSS is even possible, like Misinko said.

    I also want to point out that putting bottomless pits in the airship section of Angel Island Act 2 is a HORRIBLE idea. Seriously, this section was made much harder than it was intended, and I eventually gave up and went into debug mode, just to see what the other bosses were like. How is it much harder? You have to keep jumping, and when Sonic jumps, he's at risk of hitting the bombs, and it also pushes Sonic to the edge of the screen, which can mess up your progress, and when you do get hit, that can also mess up your progress as well.

    This is it, this is the entire hack (the only other modifications made were that a Special Stage ring is put at the beginning of each act, whose layout and starting positions were modified, and a 1-UP monitor is placed a the beginning at each boss). There is nothing much else modified. No art edits, no music edits, nothing.

    So, in conclusion, like Misinko said, this hack was lazily made and clearly rushed. It's incredibly obvious you put absolutely NO thought into your edits. The edits don't really make much sense and they just don't really fit well. I advise you that you put MUCH more effort and thought into your hack, and please do so for any future projects you may have planned. And please, keep this in mind: when making a challenging game, think about this: does the end result give a sense of accomplishment, or does it feel like a stress reliever? You would want it so that completeing the game feels rewarding. Unfortunately, with your edits, when I completed the hack, I didn't feel accomplished. I was just glad it was over. So, please, put some effort and thought into your work and make it so that it's fun and rewarding, and not stressful.

    tl;dr: This was a really lazy attempt at hacking S3K, and needs more thought and effort put into it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
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  5. Misinko

    Misinko Oh SHIT it's the Biolizard! Member

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    I would honestly encourage some people to start off with 3&K.

    While yes, it does have the most going on inside of it technically, it's also got the most going on inside it technically. In other words, you've got the most toys to play with in each level.

    As someone who is working with Sonic 2 because of the various features it has that Sonic 1 doesn't, it's creatively frustrating to work with the game, especially with the small amount of ASM knowledge I have. Sonic 3 allows people to be a lot more creative with their level layouts and gimmicks. The vine in Angel Island zone alone is a good example of that fact in action.

    In some regards, it's the perfect game to start out with due to it's sheer number of possibilities. The size may be a bit of a turn off for some, but you could always stick with Sonic 3 standard, or Sonic and Knuckles, depending on what features you want to use.
     
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  6. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden Sonic CD's Sound Test Member

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    I've played a bit of this myself, being a fellow S3K hacker, to see what other people could possibly bring to the table.
    I'll quote some others, first:
    This. It's not too impressive and also causes quite a few art issues/glitches as a result. Furthermore, increasing difficulty by adding bottomless pits isn't a good idea. In fact, it's rather cheap. Ask yourself how many legitimate bottomless pits are in Sonic 3K levels in the first place. Then, how many original bosses have them. The answer is very few.
    I am going to be that guy and say no. This seems like over-exaggerated feedback to me. S3K is difficult to work with, yes, but creating something is entirely plausible (and doable). The 2 things you'll need, however, are patience and knowledge. The first is due to how long these things can (and will take), and the second can be acquired over time. Please don't put people off working with (Or starting with) S3K just because it appears to be difficult to do so.

    My Final Thought:

    The hack needs some work. That's the main issue. While boss edits are a nice idea, changing solely the layout around existing ones doesn't really work and usually comes across as a a bit ugly, and usually not fun either. If you're serious about this hack, I recommend you take some of this feedback on board, revise what you have and come back with it at a later date.
     
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  7. its boomer

    its boomer Newcomer Member

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    Why the levels are not changed? And anyway, you started with a complex. I suggest you first make a hack for Sonic1.
     
  8. Clownacy

    Clownacy Retired Staff lolololo Member

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    No name, the screenshot is just an unmodified title screen, no mention of what the hack actually does...

    I'm not backseating, I'm just really confused.
     
  9. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden Sonic CD's Sound Test Member

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    Clownacy, you are right. I had actually completely glossed over these points.

    Il Shiki, could you please post some more appropriate media, such as screenshots of new changes, a description of the hack, etc.

    I presume you have not read my last post. There is nothing wrong with starting with S3K. Also, please don't tell someone to 'make a hack for Sonic 1' first. That's counter-intuitive, especially depending on what Il Shiki wants to achieve, and it also makes you look pushy.
     
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  10. Il Shiki

    Il Shiki Newcomer In Limbo

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  11. darkspire

    darkspire Newcomer In Limbo

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    i know this is a bit bad not seeing it for myself, but going off of the footage. i too think its lazy, even tho its your first.
     
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  12. Il Shiki

    Il Shiki Newcomer In Limbo

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  13. Il Shiki

    Il Shiki Newcomer In Limbo

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    Updated Version
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  14. Il Shiki

    Il Shiki Newcomer In Limbo

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  15. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden Sonic CD's Sound Test Member

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    I've merged your new thread with your old one, as you don't need to make a new thread for an update.

    EDIT: Your images are also way too large. Please reduce the size of them.
     
  16. Devon

    Devon I think I'm paranoid Member

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    I went ahead and played through your update, and I have to say I'm rather disappointed. Why?

    Because you basically did NOTHING with this update except change a couple chunks and perhaps added or changed a couple objects. It's rather obvious you were either in too much of a hurry to get an update out or that you were just too lazy to do anything. It's also obvious that you did not listen to our criticism of the previous version at all.

    In fact, I don't consider this an update, considering it's NEARLY IDENTICAL to the previous version. It still has all the problems the previous update had.

    Please, you still have some work to do before you can release anything that's considered an update. If you have no idea how, scroll back up and carefully read through our criticism.

    Seriously, in my opinion, releasing an update that barely changes anything from the previous version is unacceptable. You need to put more work into it before I can consider it an update. Please, do more than just change 1 or 2 things. Try to improve it.
     
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  17. TheBlad768

    TheBlad768 Well-Known Member Member

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    I see a new Sonic 3 & Knuckles: Hard Bosses Edition.

    You started to do this hack after playing in my hack? Just wondering.
    You also decided to use my system versions hack v100.0, v200.0, v300.0, v400.0.

    Your hack has a version 100.0.
    Honestly I do not see such progress in your hack. Maximum version 8.xx.
    I suggest you take more time to work on the hack. 1 year would be the best solution.

    Also I would not advise you to use my ideas from YouTube.

    For example (FBZ1) Take care of your ears!



    These bosses are not interesting. That's a pretty bad concept.
    Better think how to improve the original bosses using your ideas.

    Sooner or later you will have to work in assembler. Otherwise this hack won't be fun to play.
    A simple change of the arena bosses in Soned2 don't make this hack interesting.

    Please spend more time on your hack and release a decent version in future.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  18. Il Shiki

    Il Shiki Newcomer In Limbo

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  19. Crimson Neo

    Crimson Neo I changed a lot. Member

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    Are you having any consideration what people are saying FOR YOU in this thread? Looks like you're closing your eyes at posting.
     
  20. Devon

    Devon I think I'm paranoid Member

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    Like Rustler is saying, it's blatantly obvious that you aren't listening to any of our criticism, and that you're just spewing out update after update that don't do much to improve.

    PLEASE! Sit down, and carefully read what we had to say about your hack. It has flaws that need to be fixed, and if you just keep doing what you're doing, then opinions are most likely not to change. We want to help you to improve your hack, but you're just not paying attention.
     
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